Crowd Reactions to shows

[E3D]

I don't understand why anyone would want to diminish the reaction of fans and try and tell any fan what they should be pleased with either show design or sound. 

Makes it read as if it would be better to not have fans at all. 

Which takes me back to the idea that there should be an app. I think someone mentioned it on another thread. An app for phones / ipads etc that will allow fans at a show log in and score them as they see them. I'm not saying anything about actual fan input on the judges score just that it would be informative information. 

I bet someone here will come and besmirch that because in the end you don't really want to fan to enjoy the show. What you would rather have is a way to tell the fan what he or she is watching and how they should process it. 

[BRASSO]

1 hour ago, xandandl said:

 

Of course, there are those who like my Mom at 93 prefer the yelling of FoxNews and CNN compared to BBC America or PBS discussions  because the hearing has gone; I suspect at times there are drum corps fans like that too, and  not always dinos.

 

 ( bad analogy, imo... this thread is not asking us about negative, ie booing or yelling negatively, or bad audience reception to shows and or Corps. )

Edited April 28, 2017 by BRASSO

[jwillis35]

2 hours ago, xandandl said:

I don't disagree with what posters in the thread have been noting, but I find the discussion incomplete in this regard.

Comparing shows of the past and today is comparing apples to oranges. Some shows are designed to drive the crowd into frenetic frenzy. Some shows on the other hand are designed for the audience to sit and be in awe.

Star '92 and '93, Cadets '87, more recent BD shows of the last decade, many/many SCV offerings are all meant to dazzle the crowd and audience rather than make them raucous. JVK's approach with Bloo the year they used the bleachers is far different a design-audience engagement than Bloo '16, even without The Wink. Different designs, different approaches to audience engagement. Noise isn't the only mark of approval. Sad for the fan who can approve only noise.

Madison almost never does an "awe" show and BD has long given up shows designed to throw babies midway through the shows, percussion features excepting. Emotional doesn't only mean that fury is always the metric of beauty and art. Otherwise, one would be saying that looking at the Grand Canyon in its luster wasn't pleasing to the crowd. Not so.

 

This is fair if we're talking about design and total show development vs audience reaction.  I think the spirit of the OP's post was about shows that generate massive audience reaction...regardless of construction.  Bottom line is until the 2000's (when Madison fell on some more difficult times) they were clearly one of the corps to almost always bring a connection to the crowd in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.  Some of their shows are legendary.  I strongly encourage our younger fans to check-out some of those shows.  And if I had to pick one show during the DCI era that "lit-up" the crowd like no other, it was 1995 Madison.  

In more recent years, say 2006 to 2016, I'd say 2 corps stand out to me in terms of crowd reaction on a consistent basis. Carolina Crown and Phantom Regiment. The Bluecoats have certainly ascended in this category in the last 3 years.  I think Phantom 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012 (Nessum Dorma), and 2014.  I think Crown 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016. In this same period Cadets, SCV, BD, Cavaliers, BK, and other top 5 contenders have had some amazing shows from a construction and artistic standpoint, but they all haven't connected with the audience consistently like Crown and Phantom. 

Now don't get me wrong, the oohs and awes and the artistic merit we find in shows like 2010, 2014 and 2015 BD, 2005 & 2011 Cadets, and so forth are also a part of crowd reaction.  Cadets 2011 had big-time crowd response by the end.  Those types of shows are very necessary for the type of achievement needed to bring a full range of emotions to a program, and typically the judges reward such programs for their ability to cover a wide range of artistry.  But the point of this thread really centers on the crowd reaction perhaps in a more raucous way. A connection that physically moves the audience to whoop it up, clap, stand, raise their hands -- that kind of thing.  

There are some very artistic shows that are managing to do this very well.  Bluecoats in 2014 and 2016 are studies in artistry, construction, sound development and yet they are grabbing the audience in a big way -- not just with oohs and awes.  And obviously Carolina is too. Their recent shows have many subtleties and oohs and awes, but they also have those moments where they drive the crowd to cheer.  

At any rate, your points are well taken.  

[BRASSO]

 Audience receptivity to shows also has little to no correlation to placements either. Judges pretty much disregard the audience ( considered too difficult to ascertain. ), Many of the the most well received shows of all time, did not win that season..  '93 Star may not have been all that well received by audiences in '93, but lest we forget, it did not win with the DCI judges that season either ( at Finals OR Semi's ).  Madison '95, a HUGE hit with audiences in '95, did not even medal. As recently as 2012, BD won DCI going away with the judges, but one would be hard pressed to attempt to make the case that this NON " quiet ending " show was a bit hit with younger/ older DCI audiences from coast to coast in 2012. Jersey Surf had far more positive audience reception to their show in 2012 on their summer tour than did the 2012 DCI Title winning Blue Devils show did on their summer tour. And Jersey Surf finished 20th in 2012. So " connectivity with an audience " for perspective here as we go about our commentary on" artistic "or frenetic frenzy " type shows that were undeniably loved by audiences at the time, has never had, and does not currently have, any impact on the scores and placements that any of these DCI Corps receive.

Edited April 28, 2017 by BRASSO

[Fran Haring]

On 4/27/2017 at 9:37 AM, BRASSO said:

 2008 Phantom Regiment..... 75 Madison Scouts..... 84 Garfield Cadets..... 87 Garfield Cadets..... 89 SCV..... are others that immediately come to mind.

All of them, and I'll toss in the 1995 Scouts.

And Bridgemen at DCI Finals... in particular 1976 (the crowd reaction after the "faint"... wow)... 1979 (when the South "won" the Civil War)...  and 1980.

[Tim K]

1 hour ago, Fran Haring said:

All of them, and I'll toss in the 1995 Scouts.

And Bridgemen at DCI Finals... in particular 1976 (the crowd reaction after the "faint"... wow)... 1979 (when the South "won" the Civil War)...  and 1980.

Could you imagine the reaction of the crowd today, if there was a show that had a Civil War reenactment with Confederate flags and the South winning? Don't think it would happen.

[BRASSO]

26 minutes ago, Tim K said:

Could you imagine the reaction of the crowd today, if there was a show that had a Civil War reenactment with Confederate flags and the South winning? Don't think it would happen.

 Not a chance such a show would even get off the drawing board today. Different times & different tolerance levels for controversial things now. Most people just took it in stride and chuckled when a northern Corps ( Bridgemen) turned the tables by Championships week, and instead of the North winning ( as they had all season long ) the Bridgemen depicted the South winning. Today, that would be considered verboten and not a " chuckle " moment. We currently live in VERY serious times... lots of folks on edge.

 We need a Velvet Knights in DCI more than ever before, imo. The DCI shows are really getting more and homogenized and oh so serious, &  dark of late. We see this in many of the WGI shows now too. Lots of anger, angst, dark themes being depicted, etc and so forth. Its one reason that the Academy show was so well received last season, imo... their show started out with bleakness at a grave site, then soared with a happy wedding in the end. To no surprise, most people tend to respond better to optimistic things portrayed in shows... especially if the show ends on an optimistic note re. the theme depicted.

Edited April 28, 2017 by BRASSO

[2muchcoffeeman]

I've offered this one up before: '83 Cadets, at the end of "Rocky Point Holiday" opener, was just bloodthirsty: "EAST! EAST! EAST! EAST!" 

SCV any time they broke out the bottle dance. In '82 the Olympic Stadium crowd was so nuts and loud that Sides 1 and 2 of the corps got out of sync. 

(I'm hoping for a reprise in 2017 -- not of the timing problem, but of the bottle dance, in a finals-only appearance).

 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2017 by 2muchcoffeeman

[corpsband]

6 hours ago, jwillis35 said:

 

This is fair if we're talking about design and total show development vs audience reaction.  I think the spirit of the OP's post was about shows that generate massive audience reaction...regardless of construction.  Bottom line is until the 2000's (when Madison fell on some more difficult times) they were clearly one of the corps to almost always bring a connection to the crowd in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.  Some of their shows are legendary.  I strongly encourage our younger fans to check-out some of those shows.  And if I had to pick one show during the DCI era that "lit-up" the crowd like no other, it was 1995 Madison.  

In more recent years, say 2006 to 2016, I'd say 2 corps stand out to me in terms of crowd reaction on a consistent basis. Carolina Crown and Phantom Regiment. The Bluecoats have certainly ascended in this category in the last 3 years.  I think Phantom 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012 (Nessum Dorma), and 2014.  I think Crown 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016. In this same period Cadets, SCV, BD, Cavaliers, BK, and other top 5 contenders have had some amazing shows from a construction and artistic standpoint, but they all haven't connected with the audience consistently like Crown and Phantom. 

Now don't get me wrong, the oohs and awes and the artistic merit we find in shows like 2010, 2014 and 2015 BD, 2005 & 2011 Cadets, and so forth are also a part of crowd reaction.  Cadets 2011 had big-time crowd response by the end.  Those types of shows are very necessary for the type of achievement needed to bring a full range of emotions to a program, and typically the judges reward such programs for their ability to cover a wide range of artistry.  But the point of this thread really centers on the crowd reaction perhaps in a more raucous way. A connection that physically moves the audience to whoop it up, clap, stand, raise their hands -- that kind of thing.  

There are some very artistic shows that are managing to do this very well.  Bluecoats in 2014 and 2016 are studies in artistry, construction, sound development and yet they are grabbing the audience in a big way -- not just with oohs and awes.  And obviously Carolina is too. Their recent shows have many subtleties and oohs and awes, but they also have those moments where they drive the crowd to cheer.  

At any rate, your points are well taken.  

Performing Art  -> Audience.

As long as the audience is constantly engaged they will reliably react at the end of the performance.  We see this in every performing art.  Listen to the most somber concert.  Watch the saddest play.  If the audience is moved by the performers and the performance,  they will applaud at the end.

There are a variety of mediums where the live audience is not important.  Drum corps should never become one of them.

Does that mean "the audience" gets a vote?  Absolutely not.  But the judges (as they love to remind us) are part of the audience.  If a show does not engage,  there is no effect.  IMO if a GE judge fails to be a well-informed, neutral proxy for the audience she/he has failed.

I personally think some who judge GE become too concerned with the "components" of effect and lose sight of the sheets intent  Does this show "work"?  Do the content and the performer combine to engage and retain the attention of the audience?

[BRASSO]

 DCI judge George Oliviero who wrote the GE sheets... essentially all by himself... in a taped interview in the early 70's told the interviewer that he never attempts to put himself into the shoes of an audience, or to look and listen to the show thru their personal prism. He stated that to do so was fraught with pitfalls for him, and he did not want to put the onus on himself to determine if the show connected well with an audience. Instead, he said, he put the onus completely on himself to see how the show connected holistically to him in the end.. and only him. That philosophy was carried over into his training with the judges that would implement his belief. The GE captions have changed a bit over the years, but the standard of judging GE solely by how it effects the judge both intellectually and emotionally, and wholly apart from " the audience " still remains fundamentally intact today.