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43 minutes ago, AoEnut said:

I think I can say pretty confidently that is not true. 

 

Well, I have no idea where you are getting your info from, but I can verify that Jeff is exactly right. The performing corps all wanted a preview show both last year and this year.

Edited by Kamarag
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50 minutes ago, Kamarag said:

 

Well, I have no idea where you are getting your info from, but I can verify that Jeff is exactly right. The performing corps all wanted a preview show both last year and this year.

All?

 

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2 hours ago, Kamarag said:

 

Well, I have no idea where you are getting your info from, but I can verify that Jeff is exactly right. The performing corps all wanted a preview show both last year and this year.

I question the legitimacy of "all"

I wondered why?  

 

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, AoEnut said:

I question the legitimacy of "all"

I wondered why?  

 

 

 

 

I can speak on behalf of the Bushwackers in saying we would have been at the Wildwood show either way, a score or no score. Actually we would have welcomed a score from last Saturday's show. We were not part of any decision either way in regards to a judged competition or an evaluation show nor do I think any other corps was. 

Jay

Edited by HBD
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14 minutes ago, HBD said:

I can speak on behalf of the Bushwackers in saying we would have been at the Wildwood show either way, a score or no score. Actually we would have welcomed a score from last Saturday's show. We were not part of any decision either way in regards to a judged competition or an evaluation show nor do I think any other corps was. 

Jay

 

Our director came to us last year in May and asked what we though of making Wildwood a previews show. It seems he was approached by other corps planning to attend that floated the idea. I (along with the rest of our staff) said pretty much what you did..."Either way is fine". After the show last June, the attending corps staffs talked about it a bit following the judges meeting and all affirmed how good an experience it was.

When asked again a couple months ago, the message was clear...all the attending corps were in favor of it.

Neither I or anyone else is suggesting the idea was forced on anyone, or was put forth by any one corps. It was absolutely a group effort.

Edited by Kamarag

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John/Jeff....your "information" is fictitious at best.

Edited by cmfdog
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16 hours ago, AoEnut said:

Here’s my uninformed opinion, again.  it used to be a judged show, it actually used to be inside at the convention center (definitely silly because the field wasn’t big enough).

My question, same as before, why?  

It was certainly okay to run inside on a field that wasn’t big enough as a competition field.  Up till last year it was still a judged show at Maxwell field. 

What’s the angle?  Everyone has high school kids. Most, if not all, were pretty full and prepared to perform.  Regarding commentary, it's just that, the number has nothing to do with that.  It's probably odd for them to not give a number.  

Yes, you can get a number 5 days later, but, the competitive season is now a week later, I’m sure in 5 years it will be a week later than that and champs will move from labor day weekend, the cost running a corps is just to much for it to go that late.  Kids have high school and college to get to, this will become the biggest challenge of DCA.  

Why change it? 

Are DCA corps not happy getting a number that early?  

Are there certain corps that don’t feel it’s fair?  

Are certain corps prepared and others not and this allows for another week to delay their competitive measure?

 

AoE

 

You are right it used to be judged and it used to be in the convention center. It was only changed to a judged exhibition last year. I'm only on the Caballeros staff and only have a few friends I've discussed this with on other staffs so I can only offer our perspective. Most people like it, we enjoy the first week of the DCA season being about the audience entertainment, the drum corps' camaraderie with each other, and the staff getting the necessary feedback on their program to be able to provide the best product they can for the rest of the season and finals. Over the years Wildwood has become less about score and more about the success of the future shows. There are plenty of corps that take their time and ease into the season. Part of this is due to the age and demands (both internally or externally) put on our performer's. There's corps that still have plenty of holes to fill in terms of membership, design, costuming etc. There's been years where groups have literally finished learning their closer the day of Wildwood. Is it really fair to put a number on that? And I know what you're going to say, corps should try harder to get their shows done and make sure this doesn't happen but I've got to tell you no matter what we do many corps have this issue creep up every year. Gain a member-lose two. Order the guard flags in November-they don't arrive until the Friday of WW. Need a new part for the sound system-they ship everything except that and don't tell you it's on back order until two weeks later. Most schools proms are Memorial Day weekend. Most schools graduations are the Friday night of Wildwood. Most times we're still explaining to parents where exactly their kids are going to be traveling to each weekend and why. It's something that every corps deals with and we work our butts off to try and prevent it. The staff of the Caballeros literally eats, sleeps, and breathes recruitment, scheduling, show design and performance. So it's not for lack of trying. As I'm sure every corps does.

 I've been doing this for nearly twenty years. I can tell you that everyone on Saturday came to Wildwood more prepared than previous years, all corps were the best I've seen them in WW, so everyone left feeling good, happy and excited to move forward on the season. I've been part of years where a corps got a number they didn't truly deserve in WW because they were willing to go out and expose themselves very early on for a score. It can really deflate the momentum of a corps early on. As for the adjudication side of things, here's the benefits to no number:

-Nobody can say the season was called at the first show

-We get honest and open dialogue from the judge's about the show design and performer effectiveness where they don't feel like their commentary has to fit exactly in the caption or number box they need it to.

-The performer's have a chance to just perform without the pressure of a score but the pressure of a legit adjudicated performance.

-We know performer stamina is an issue with most corps early on so the judge's can talk more about performer's execution and design than performer stamina. Additionally Wildwood is always windy so who knows if they actually would have caught their equipment or not. 

- It provides validation to corps staffs about the show and the performance.

-Removing the competition aspect of the performance leads to a lot of great conversations behind to the scenes between corps staffs on how to do things better or what we enjoyed about each other's show. It's a great feeling we've established for the rest of the season.

-Everyone leaves happy and not feeling like their whole season is in danger based upon a score.

The only upside I can think of by getting a number is that you get a number. That's about all. The people who didn't attend the show now know who won. That's literally the only difference. So there's nothing to be angry or upset about. Drum corps is not failing the world by having an exhibition. It's actually really benefiting and like I said before I truly believe this because every corps went into Wildwood the most prepared. It would be discouraging for any corps not to think so but when numbers come out then that changes the attitude. "What do you mean we were 3 points behind so and so we were so much more prepared than last year". We've all been there. I guess I'm taking to the time to write all this to let you know that every thing is fine and this is all just part of trying to make sure that you get your monies worth for every show especially finals! 

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48 minutes ago, Big Adam said:

- Nobody can say the season was called at the first show

Who is saying the season is being called at the 1st show?  I really want to know that.

48 minutes ago, Big Adam said:

- It provides validation to corps staffs about the show and the performance.

What about the validation of being prepared because you did the work during the winter and spring?  There's no payoff of where you lye from 0 to 100.  

48 minutes ago, Big Adam said:

Removing the competition aspect of the performance leads to a lot of great conversations behind to the scenes between corps staffs on how to do things better or what we enjoyed about each other's show. It's a great feeling we've established for the rest of the season.

So no staffs where discussions and sharing before this?  

48 minutes ago, Big Adam said:

-The performer's have a chance to just perform without the pressure of a score but the pressure of a legit adjudicated performance.

I think the pressure for the performer is merely making it from the beginning to the end.  I'm sure they could careless about the judges and their constructive criticisms, they are just trying to breath.   

 

I'm not sure where you're going with all of this.  But with what you're saying, the whole season should be without numbers cause the competitive aspect is ruining communication with judges and staffs?  Maybe during the middle of the season there should have more of theses, the judges won't be so encumbered with a system that doesn't allow them to speak freely.  Judges react, with or without numbers, yes?

Edited by AoEnut
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4 minutes ago, AoEnut said:

Who is saying the season is being called at the 1st show?  I really want to know that.

What about the validation of being prepared because you did the work during the winter and spring?  There's no payoff of where you lye from 0 to 100.  

So no staffs where discussions and sharing before this?  

 

1) Just a common drum corps phrase that's uttered from time to time. I have no documented the exact people over the years but sometimes it's said, sometimes it's not.

2) Everybody does the work through the winter and spring. There's no question of that but sometimes you just want to know you're on the right track and you want to be able to go back to the members and say "hey everything we've been telling you all winter and spring well now a judge is saying the same thing". It's classic like a parent telling their kids to do something and then the uncle comes over and says the same exact thing and they do it. It happens everywhere.

3) IMO the last two years, after the show at the hangout seem to have a much supportive tone between staffs and corps. That could just be my impression but either way it's been nice. I think some of that is because of people not being upset with who won or their number/placement.

It seems like you're really upset and I'm not sure why.  

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