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Cesario out as Artistic Director


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2 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Actually, there was a whole thread about it several years ago called "DCI's Artistic Director does...what, exactly?".  You even posted there.  

In fact, your posts were arguably more insulting to Cesario than anything said in this thread.  Surprised the language you used slipped through the DCP profanity filters.  You called him a "politician".  :)

Yes as Ior you..lol, said several years ago BUT I didnt say even now that I still did not have those feelings and there are many in our activity who for sure are politician's . AS I said the timing just seems a little weird to me but hey it's fine

AS far as profanity. I must have been having a real bad day it's not really my style. I also tend not to look back for many reasons. People can be very different today than even a few days ago let alone a few years ago ( or not ) and things can  evolve every day.

Do or did I have issues with some of MC , sure that doesnt mean now at his retirement we can't give him a little respect for years of service. There's a certain corps director I don't personally like BUT no denying their contributions to their corps as well as the activity.

 

I will say MC did have some funny sayings when chatting about critics and designers..( not appropriate to repeat here though..lol)

Please don't get me wrong I'm not disagreeing with you or even others, just timing. If there was ongoing questions on the topic or person that's one thing and if there was maybe I missed it but as he leave now just wish him luck and thanks ( agree with policy or not )

Edited by GUARDLING
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1 hour ago, Triple Forte said:

Another visual/guard focused person. I would much rather have a music focused person.    :(

I agree with you that over the past number of years music has taken not only a back seat in DCI but for many corps musical sound is now in the trunk of the super-duper decked- out tricked-out high-gloss iridescent-painted show-car and considered as merely a byproduct enhancer to sometimes shake the trunk lid!!

In fact, there have been many postings by Guardling as well as others who 100% advocate that DCI should be, and is, ALL About The Visual; and their contention is that sound, not necessarily even music, but sound is there to only enhance the most important aspect The Visual.  And it has been supported by how the GE rankings and scoring has played out over the past number of years by the judging (this issue has also caused many fiery exchanges between me and Guardling here on DCP).

Thus since the artistic direction of DCI has shifted to, "It Is All About The Visual", and that has been what has been rewarded the most by the GE adjudicators, the music of many, not all, but many of the top DCI corps over the past number of years has been mainly incoherent phrasing walls of sound and synth goo which is not to be partaken by us as ‘Musical Compositions’ but merely there to become foundational underlying sound which augments what they consider DCI to be all about.... The Visual.

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1 hour ago, Cappybara said:

Why? The music has been just fine. 

Have...have you heard any DCI shows from before 2000? I might agree that it's "fine" if you don't treat drum corps now as the same activity, but anyone familiar at all with the musical content back then would be hard pressed not to bemoan the drastic loss of quality and substance in this new era.

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3 minutes ago, Hrothgar15 said:

Have...have you heard any DCI shows from before 2000? I might agree that it's "fine" if you don't treat drum corps now as the same activity, but anyone familiar at all with the musical content back then would be hard pressed not to bemoan the drastic loss of quality and substance in this new era.

Of course I have lol, I've been participating on DCP since 2013, I'd have to try very hard to have not heard shows from the 80s and 90s (and some from the 70's, though I don't really enjoy listening to those). 

As for the rest of your comment, I disagree. 

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Just now, Cappybara said:

Of course I have lol, I've been participating on DCP since 2013, I'd have to try very hard to have not heard shows from the 80s and 90s (and some from the 70's, though I don't really enjoy listening to those). 

As for the rest of your comment, I disagree. 

Care pointing me to a musical example from the past few years that in anyway approaches this, say, random 8th place show from 1993, in terms of substance, style, maturity of arranging, attention to detail etc.? (Purely from a brass/percussion content standpoint, not performance.) Aside from several recent Crown shows, can't really think of any.

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45 minutes ago, Stu said:

I agree with you that over the past number of years music has taken not only a back seat in DCI but for many corps musical sound is now in the trunk of the super-duper decked- out tricked-out high-gloss iridescent-painted show-car and considered as merely a byproduct enhancer to sometimes shake the trunk lid!!

In fact, there have been many postings by Guardling as well as others who 100% advocate that DCI should be, and is, ALL About The Visual; and their contention is that sound, not necessarily even music, but sound is there to only enhance the most important aspect The Visual.  And it has been supported by how the GE rankings and scoring has played out over the past number of years by the judging (this issue has also caused many fiery exchanges between me and Guardling here on DCP).

Thus since the artistic direction of DCI has shifted to, "It Is All About The Visual", and that has been what has been rewarded the most by the GE adjudicators, the music of many, not all, but many of the top DCI corps over the past number of years has been mainly incoherent phrasing walls of sound and synth goo which is not to be partaken by us as ‘Musical Compositions’ but merely there to become foundational underlying sound which augments what they consider DCI to be all about.... The Visual.

 

I dont remember saying it should be this way , only that it was. I do think one doesnt work without the other in todays activity.

Personally, jmo I like to hear a great horn line but are there to "see" a show so visuals have become    a very major part .I do think this was happening way before many of us want to think it was. This is not new and can go back decades to visual moments that stole the show bitd like a 27th lancers only to grow into a full production we see today.

Ive seen this not only in our activity but other forms of music in the past few years also. For me, and I say just for me I love to see the visual combined with the musical but that does'nt have to be everyone's opinion for sure.

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1 hour ago, Hrothgar15 said:

Have...have you heard any DCI shows from before 2000? I might agree that it's "fine" if you don't treat drum corps now as the same activity, but anyone familiar at all with the musical content back then would be hard pressed not to bemoan the drastic loss of quality and substance in this new era.

Oh honey! I can't find #### this good to smoke, and I live in Colorado! Send some of it my way.

As someone with a degree in music education and who has been teaching band and orchestra for a good ten years, I can tell you --- unequivocally --- that yes, corps today are (in general, not every one of them) offering up brass books with MUCH more substance and technicality, as well as nuance and detail, than previous decades. If I'm playing something for my students to model terrific tone quality and technical prowess on the field, there are incredible examples across every decade (and terrible examples across every decade), but most of my examples come from this century. And not so that they're somehow relatable, it's simply because attention to tone quality, balance, and blend (as well as demand and execution) have all vastly improved over time as the bar is raised higher every year.

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1 minute ago, Jake W. said:

I can tell you --- unequivocally --- that yes, corps today are (in general, not every one of them) offering up brass books with MUCH more substance and technicality, as well as nuance and detail, than previous decades

Which examples did you have in mind? Audio if you can, but I can references timestamps and such also if they're hard to find.

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2 hours ago, Cappybara said:

Why? The music has been just fine. 

 Sorry… I don't agree.   Just think of it this way if you're not a huge fan of classical or symphonic influenced music where does that leave you? How many other musical genres are really being well represented in today's shows? 

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22 hours ago, garfield said:

I thought that might be the case, too.  But I was keeping track at the time, and the numbers don't bear out the contention:

Total Revenue of DCI

2008: $8.8mil

2009: $8.5mil

2010: $8.83mil

2011: $9.72mil

2012:  $9.514mil

(source: DCI 990's)

And I've got attendance figures that don't bear out your contention; it was actually increasing from 2010 - 2013.

I don't want to take anything away from anyone who has devoted his life to the marching arts, but I do want to keep forefront in mind that those actually out there doing it deserve more credit for where we are today than those who stand on the sidelines and say "I like my mortar joints a little smaller".  

 A good friend, and one actually doing it, reminds me of this fact.

 

 

and you have nothing from 13-16, when the fruits of his labors truly came to fruition.

 

15....2 corps at the end, could go either way, 3 and 4 not far behind. best drama in a season since 1980 except then came 16, 3 corps duking it out, a new finalist, shows below 12th reaching and appealing to more fans than ever before...

 

 

this was never going to be an easy overnight fix. It was going to take years. And seeing the figures and reactions from 2010 through last year, his work is finally paying off....for everyone..

It's only been in the last 2 years i've seen Allentown as full as it's been since the 1980's. That's right, when prelims and finals were all the same day.

 

you know how those of us have said DCI hasnt fallen apart overnight...same thing with putting it back together. But you can see his influence these last several years

 

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