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Cesario out as Artistic Director


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1 minute ago, Hrothgar15 said:

Which examples did you have in mind? Audio if you can, but I can references timestamps and such also if they're hard to find.

I'll just do entire music books, and I'll even limit it to 2016. If I need an example of absolutely lush, gorgeous brass blend, I'll play SCV from this past year. I truly think one would be hard pressed to find a brass sound from the 70s or 80s that sounds so full and concertesque. If I want to show an example if pure musicality and lyrical playing, The Academy's closer fits the bill. Tons of exposure, lines that rise and fall with such amazing nuance and detail. The difficulty of BD's ballad impact, while not pulled off 100% (in my opinion), fits the bill for swirling lines that lead up to a giant, MASSIVELY exposed impact, the orchestration of which truly would have given any brass line from any decade a serious challenge. I would put Oregon & Mandarin's brass books up against any 16th & 17th place world class corps from any year in terms of difficulty and demand. Obviously, the technical prowess of Crown, Coats, & BD from this past season sticks out amongst any decade. I would put Blue Stars' hornline's blend and balance and full sound up against any 9th place corps throughout drum corps history and wager them to come out on top in terms of tone quality. Phantom's delicate approach to Young Person's Guide in their closer demonstrated some top notch technical abilities matched with exceptional balance and blend. 

It's not that I decry the merits of brass lines from previous decades....I *REGULARLY* (every season) play SCV '89 to demonstrate to my students what passion sounds like on the field, it's just that mots of my example of musicality and balance and blend and skilled execution of high demand passages come from this century. And it makes sense, the bar gets set higher and higher every year, as it should.

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7 hours ago, Eleran said:

I always think of DCP a bit like a local pub, like Cheers, where we know everybody and discuss the things we love, and even tease one another mercilessly from time to time.

Of course, there are always one or two guys that you just never want to sit next to at the bar and have to listen to their BS all night.

hey be nice, Cliff actually marched drum corps

Edited by Jeff Ream
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1 hour ago, Hrothgar15 said:

Have...have you heard any DCI shows from before 2000? I might agree that it's "fine" if you don't treat drum corps now as the same activity, but anyone familiar at all with the musical content back then would be hard pressed not to bemoan the drastic loss of quality and substance in this new era.

music has improved...more melodic phrases, better audio/visual cordination...I hum more off of the 16 discs than I do off the 12 discs

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1 hour ago, Hrothgar15 said:

Care pointing me to a musical example from the past few years that in anyway approaches this, say, random 8th place show from 1993, in terms of substance, style, maturity of arranging, attention to detail etc.? (Purely from a brass/percussion content standpoint, not performance.) Aside from several recent Crown shows, can't really think of any.

BD 2014. Plenty of substance and technical prowess in the opener, huge stylistic and mood changes in every movement, seamless transitions from piece to piece that show far more maturity in arranging and thought than the show you just linked, balance and blend (especially in that ballad) that far outdoes any ensemble sound you will hear from a line of G bugles, and musical details that match the visual moments throughout the show. 

But im not here to convince you otherwise. You grew up watching drum corps in a different era than me, and humans naturally hate change and will oppose it to the best of their ability. This is basic psychology. I prefer the drum corps that I was first exposed to, and you prefer the drum corps that you were first exposed to. And that's fine. 

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9 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

BD 2014. Plenty of substance and technical prowess in the opener, huge stylistic and mood changes in every movement, seamless transitions from piece to piece that show far more maturity in arranging and thought than the show you just linked, balance and blend (especially in that ballad) that far outdoes any ensemble sound you will hear from a line of G bugles, and musical details that match the visual moments throughout the show. 

But im not here to convince you otherwise. You grew up watching drum corps in a different era than me, and humans naturally hate change and will oppose it to the best of their ability. This is basic psychology. I prefer the drum corps that I was first exposed to, and you prefer the drum corps that you were first exposed to. And that's fine. 

Wouldnt it be nice if all could appreciate both. AS much as  some from other era's express the dislikes of many aspects of the activity, in my experience I have found there are many who appreciate the efforts of the activity today and totally enjoy the progression. IMO what some forget the progression to what we are today did not take place over night which means many from other decades contributed to what we have today and that's not a bad thing imo.

Edited by GUARDLING
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1 hour ago, Cappybara said:

You grew up watching drum corps in a different era than me, and humans naturally hate change and will oppose it to the best of their ability. This is basic psychology. I prefer the drum corps that I was first exposed to, and you prefer the drum corps that you were first exposed to. And that's fine. 

I didn't, though. I grew up watching the same shows live as you have. It's just that I've actively sought out exposure to and been so spoiled by hundreds of older, much higher quality shows as produced under the previous DCI rules. I would recommend trying it too, but it would unfortunately make it more difficult to appreciate today's shows.

Ultimately though, I think a new drum corps organization will one day need to sprout up. DCI would have to have completely merged with WGI and BOA for that to happen, and there are important economic hurdles to overcome, but there would be a huge demand from performers and fans young and old for such an activity to exist as a separate entity. No time soon, but someone dedicated who can make a compelling case for it can make it happen one day.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Hrothgar15 said:

I didn't, though. I grew up watching the same shows live as you have. It's just that I've actively sought out exposure to and been so spoiled by hundreds of older, much higher quality shows as produced under the previous DCI rules. I would recommend trying it too, but it would unfortunately make it more difficult to appreciate today's shows.

Ultimately though, I think a new drum corps organization will one day need to sprout up. DCI would have to have completely merged with WGI and BOA for that to happen, and there are important economic hurdles to overcome, but there would be a huge demand from performers and fans young and old for such an activity to exist as a separate entity. No time soon, but someone dedicated who can make a compelling case for it can make it happen one day.

 

 

I think DCA was the separate  entity BUT even there has learned they must move toward the future. It's slower there but a few decades now there have been those helping to push even there forward. Alumni corps still reminds us of the good ole days but even there attendance is not really good from  what I have seen and heard from sponsors. I wish some could see what we did bitd is still strong in today's drum corps and also what we did is the reason we still have an activity today. Things didn't change overnight and we all from other decades contributed to today's success, progression, and change

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6 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

I think DCA was the separate  entity BUT even there has learned they must move toward the future. 

"The future" is a funny way to say "what DCI/WGI was at the time." They could have charted their own vision for the future, though again, with the economic situation as it has become, it was becoming extremely risky not to simply assimilate to what DCI was doing.

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20 minutes ago, Hrothgar15 said:

I didn't, though. I grew up watching the same shows live as you have. It's just that I've actively sought out exposure to and been so spoiled by hundreds of older, much higher quality shows as produced under the previous DCI rules. I would recommend trying it too, but it would unfortunately make it more difficult to appreciate today's shows.

Ultimately though, I think a new drum corps organization will one day need to sprout up. DCI would have to have completely merged with WGI and BOA for that to happen, and there are important economic hurdles to overcome, but there would be a huge demand from performers and fans young and old for such an activity to exist as a separate entity. No time soon, but someone dedicated who can make a compelling case for it can make it happen one day.

 

 

I have a pretty huge bank of shows, so access to the older shows is not an issue for me. 

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4 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

I dont remember saying it should be this way , only that it was. I do think one doesnt work without the other in todays activity.

Personally, jmo I like to hear a great horn line but are there to "see" a show so visuals have become    a very major part .I do think this was happening way before many of us want to think it was.

Oh how I wish that I had the time and energy to go deep sea diving on DCP and dig up some previous comments on older threads here on DCP. Suffice it to say that my contention was that I should be able to enjoy listening to the musical compositions/arrangements on the CD as much as enjoying watching/listening to the shows on the DVD; you on the other hand were hyper-rabid concerning that DCI is, and should be, ‘All About The Visual’.

I even asked you at one point if that meant it was ok to destroy the cohesive musical phrasing, melodic content, composition-structure, etc… and produce merely incidental quasi-musical sound spurts and seemingly random impact points in the name of enhancing/supporting the all-mighty Visual.  Your response was not only in the Affirmative, but that in your opinion the musical sound should actually be driven by those Visual cues and that it mattered not if the music made any cohesive sense whatsoever while listening to it on a CD.  To you it was far, far more important for the first trumpets to run, dance, spin, move in extreme athletic ways than for them to play a cohesive musical melody. This is what spawned the fiery debates I was referring to.

Edited by Stu
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