cfirwin3 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Ummmm... A show within a couple hours of home that has a major regional or finals post intermission line up is a huge draw. Schools are far more likely to buy ticketed blocks at a group rate at these shows. They are also more likely to coincide with clinic experiences for kids. TOC shows have big crowds and are typically in large venues. They also have the best chance of providing a "competition" experience for the participants and viewers. Typical DCI sanctioned shows often are not competitive... having a handful of corps in different competitive brackets. Anti-TOC is simply anti-image... There's no reason to not have these shows and plenty of reason to have them. The Tournament Of Champions label, however... probably should be something else. Not sure what though. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 2 hours ago, brians said: oh the g7 is alive and well, just is more under the radar. what is the payout of these 7 corps at the TOC shows? is it still substantially more than the other participating corps? and the 3 years of 8th or more rule never really was enforced by the g7 because they would have had to let in Blue Stars 08, 9, 10 in ,and if my mind serves me right Boston... thus all the flap several years ago when it didn't happen. it was never really about letting others in, but keeping others out. Would be interesting if one of the g7 corps fell from the top 7/8, would they still get the higher payout when attending the TOC shows even though a corps like....lets say Boston places higher on a consistent basis? Well obviously if a corps hosts the show, they keep the net after expenses. One of those expenses is the DCI-mandated appearance fees that the host must pay to all the participating corps. Are there other revenue sharing deals amongst the former G7 around the TOC? It seemed like there might have been back when TOC got started - when they formed Music in Motion as a separate org and awarded a separate TOC champion - but I'm skeptical that any of that still survives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKT90 Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 minute ago, cfirwin3 said: Ummmm... A show within a couple hours of home that has a major regional or finals post intermission line up is a huge draw. Schools are far more likely to buy ticketed blocks at a group rate at these shows. They are also more likely to coincide with clinic experiences for kids. TOC shows have big crowds and are typically in large venues. They also have the best chance of providing a "competition" experience for the participants and viewers. Typical DCI sanctioned shows often are not competitive... having a handful of corps in different competitive brackets. Anti-TOC is simply anti-image... There's no reason to not have these shows and plenty of reason to have them. The Tournament Of Champions label, however... probably should be something else. Not sure what though. Having top corps in a show, no problem with that...how G7 came to be, problem with that. It was selfish and showed how other corps are thought of...it wasn't in the mindset to help DCI, but it was with the intent of how they can personally benefit and get their way. Completely selfish in the intent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, JKT90 said: Having top corps in a show, no problem with that...how G7 came to be, problem with that. It was selfish and showed how other corps are thought of...it wasn't in the mindset to help DCI, but it was with the intent of how they can personally benefit and get their way. Completely selfish in the intent. Water under the bridge... The hay is in the barn... Should probably call the TOC shows something like "DCI World Class Showcase". It's already considerably open to a variety of world class corps that travel hard. Edited July 19, 2017 by cfirwin3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKT90 Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said: Water under the bridge... The hay is in the barn... Should probably call the TOC shows something like "DCI World Class Showcase". It's already considerably open to a variety of world class corps that travel hard. Any corps I was associated with would have nothing to do with this. It doesn't represent what DCI is all about...the whole I'm better than you mentality disgusts me...but yeah, water under the bridge...hay is in the barn. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 hour ago, JKT90 said: Any corps I was associated with would have nothing to do with this. It doesn't represent what DCI is all about...the whole I'm better than you mentality disgusts me...but yeah, water under the bridge...hay is in the barn. Well... There is an apologetic at work there... Inevitably it will tick someone off or offend... But there was and is a desire for some of these groups to have a more frequent and regular opportunity to be rated against a wider field of their competitive peers. The nature of the word "elite" tends to lead to a mentality of a perceived nefarious or selfish "elitism"... It's unavoidable, even though classification by size, or score is ethically and morally nothing of the sort. The irony is that the anger in the claim of elitism can often bear more classified negativity and hate than the source of the charge itself. There really isn't a gripe for exclusion when the top world class corps are equally keeping up appearances at smaller venues. Unfortunately, It just turns into a form of classism for the sake of yelling about something. All that being said... We all have an appreciation for the pretentious nature of the silly G7 talk from the past... as if drumcorps is of such diplomatic importance and consequence to warrant UN terminology. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKT90 Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 42 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said: Well... There is an apologetic at work there... Inevitably it will tick someone off or offend... But there was and is a desire for some of these groups to have a more frequent and regular opportunity to be rated against a wider field of their competitive peers. The nature of the word "elite" tends to lead to a mentality of a perceived nefarious or selfish "elitism"... It's unavoidable, even though classification by size, or score is ethically and morally nothing of the sort. The irony is that the anger in the claim of elitism can often bear more classified negativity and hate than the source of the charge itself. There really isn't a gripe for exclusion when the top world class corps are equally keeping up appearances at smaller venues. Unfortunately, It just turns into a form of classism for the sake of yelling about something. All that being said... We all have an appreciation for the pretentious nature of the silly G7 talk from the past... as if drumcorps is of such diplomatic importance and consequence to warrant UN terminology. I'm not sure what you just said, but I think I can kind of appreciate it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 13 minutes ago, JKT90 said: I'm not sure what you just said, but I think I can kind of appreciate it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brians Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 15 hours ago, ShortAndFast said: Well obviously if a corps hosts the show, they keep the net after expenses. One of those expenses is the DCI-mandated appearance fees that the host must pay to all the participating corps. Are there other revenue sharing deals amongst the former G7 around the TOC? It seemed like there might have been back when TOC got started - when they formed Music in Motion as a separate org and awarded a separate TOC champion - but I'm skeptical that any of that still survives. oh, be skeptical, there is a reason why these show still exist and money is at the heart of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv4corps Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 As I watched the Broken Arrow show I was just feeling pure envy. Imagine having this amazing show in or near your home town. I have no problem with TOC shows, other than that there isn't one within two thousand miles of where I live. If the icing on the cake is that money is made, all the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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