Amplify THIS ! !

[Ediker]

3 minutes ago, Mello Dude said:

But mics don't because it is an artificial sound.  Best sound is ALWAYS live without amps.  Amping changes the sound.  If the soloist needs to be mic'd everything else is too loud. 

Yes, there is such a distortion and degradation to the original sound when it's amplified that is worse, for my ears, than the gains argued for mics. 

[Mello Dude]

1 minute ago, Cappybara said:

Hmm that is where we will have to just agree to disagree then. I will take near perfect tone quality that I can hear without straining my ears through a mic over a pinched/pitchy un-miced solo any day. 

Well, first thing there is no such thing as "perfect" tone quality.  I have heard VAST differences in playing and all have merit at a high level.  As someone who plays, I can tell you that it's possible to play loud without pinching and in fact "pinching" is precisely what you should NOT be doing if you are good at playing.  Again, if the ambient noise was SOFTER the soloist would not need to blow their brains out to be heard regardless of key.

[Cappybara]

Just now, Mello Dude said:

Well, first thing there is no such thing as "perfect" tone quality.  I have heard VAST differences in playing and all have merit at a high level.  As someone who plays, I can tell you that it's possible to play loud without pinching and in fact "pinching" is precisely what you should NOT be doing if you are good at playing.  Again, if the ambient noise was SOFTER the soloist would not need to blow their brains out to be heard regardless of key.

Since we're being pedantic, I'll change it to "best tone quality possible" 

i just gave you an example where the corps WAS doing everything it could to play soft, but the effect that they were going for (echo) required some loud moments mixed in. So the solo would've been drowned out. 

I'm not sure what else I can say to make my position more clear, I've been giving you concrete examples. 

[Hrothgar15]

1 hour ago, Cappybara said:

Using a mic allows for much better tone quality and avoids the harshness that would occur without the mic. I use 2012 Pacific Crest as an example. They had a gorgeous flugelhorn solo play the melody of Yellow by Coldplay and it was chill-inducing good. You just can't have solos like that without a mic 

Again, watch or listen to drum corps before 2012. There are plenty of unamped flugelhorn solos that are chill-inducing and perfectly audible.

[Cappybara]

5 minutes ago, Hrothgar15 said:

Again, watch or listen to drum corps before 2012. There are plenty of unamped flugelhorn solos that are chill-inducing and perfectly audible.

As much as I'd like to, I don't have time to listen to every single show to hear what you're talking about so please provide some examples 

[Fran Haring]

In 2001, DCA's Empire Statesmen used a live voiceover during their one-minute "moving warmup"... over top of the brass and percussion. They, when possible, used the stadium PA system for this... the announcer even had his own mini-mixing board to patch into the stadium PA. (Back then, DCA corps were allowed to do pretty much anything they wanted... electronics, voice, alternative instruments, whatever... during that one-minute warmup before judging began.)

IMO, it was great. Really set the tone for the Statesmen's production. It helped that the announcer was a professional radio guy.

But I wonder.... will the time come when the corps ditch their field-level systems and just go directly through stadium PA systems, in particular at the larger venues?  Obviously, that might not/would not work at, say, a smaller high school venue or something like that.

[FeathersUp]

10 minutes ago, Hrothgar15 said:

Again, watch or listen to drum corps before 2012. There are plenty of unamped flugelhorn solos that are chill-inducing and perfectly audible.

Glassmen 2001 and 2002. No mic needed. He played musically with a great tone.

Edited July 28, 2017 by FeathersUp

[Fran Haring]

11 minutes ago, Hrothgar15 said:

Again, watch or listen to drum corps before 2012. There are plenty of unamped flugelhorn solos that are chill-inducing and perfectly audible.

The Glassmen flugel soloist comes to mind. Great player. (Edited to acknowledge that the previous poster beat me to this....LOL)

I mostly agree with Cappy, though... the miking certainly helps with any number of brass solos, and allows corps to do some cool things with those soloists in terms of visual staging.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Fran Haring

[GlenI]

32 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

Since we're being pedantic, I'll change it to "best tone quality possible" 

i just gave you an example where the corps WAS doing everything it could to play soft, but the effect that they were going for (echo) required some loud moments mixed in. So the solo would've been drowned out. 

I'm not sure what else I can say to make my position more clear, I've been giving you concrete examples. 

I think it's all about balance. And that's subjective. I remember the little "Curtain Call" that The Cadets did at the end of the '87 show. The crowd went so nuts that there was no way to hear the soloist. A mic would have fixed that. There's a time and place. IMO, amplification is like hot pepper, a little can wake up a dish. Even a lot for a short bit can be good. But too much and everything gets over shadowed. I think the activity is still figuring out how much is enough. 

[Cappybara]

10 minutes ago, GlenI said:

I think it's all about balance. And that's subjective. I remember the little "Curtain Call" that The Cadets did at the end of the '87 show. The crowd went so nuts that there was no way to hear the soloist. A mic would have fixed that. There's a time and place. IMO, amplification is like hot pepper, a little can wake up a dish. Even a lot for a short bit can be good. But too much and everything gets over shadowed. I think the activity is still figuring out how much is enough. 

Totally agree with you