A Reprieve on A&E (Maybe?)

[Stu]

At the end of the season if Heimbecker and Frost make public statements and rules proposals sort of like. "We know that we were Gold and Silver finishers this season, but all of this crazy electronic amp stuff has gotten way out of hand and needs to be drastically scaled back."  I will believe the sincerity some have attributed to Hop when he says all the top corps have concerns.  But to just place this on the complaints of a director of a corps who has wins with past progressive designs, a director who was influential when his corps was on top, but now a corps that is slipping to around eighth place, well, that I am not personally buying without also having the vocal support of Heimbecker and Frost.  We shall see, we shall see.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Stu

[Jeff Ream]

10 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Well, there was that time when the DCI board went on record as being permanently opposed to a 3-valve bugle.  That happened circa 1976, when approving the 2-piston horn.  Evidently, "permanent" = 14 years.

Or how about when DCI made shows longer in 1974, shorter in 1986, and longer in 2017?

but the 3 valve wasnt formally proposed

[Jeff Ream]

9 hours ago, Stu said:

Billboard editor Thom Duffy and Entertainment Columnist Rashod Ollison have both commented on this (honest disclosure: I did combine the overlaps of the two into one quote): "The expectations of fans have changed, and that's the driving force here ... Since the advent of MTV and other video music channels, pop audiences have been fed elaborate performances thick with jaw-dropping effects, awesome choreography, fabulous clothes, and marvelous bodies. And the same level of perfection spectacle is expected to extend beyond the video set to the live concert stage; But since musical performers cannot produce that level of visual spectacle live while actually singing and playing that is why it is now acceptable for the fans to knowingly hear recorded tracks at supposed live concerts. And if concert performances sound and look flat compared to the fans expectations, fans won't pay up to $300 for a live concert ticket."

good point.....I'm a huge Rush fan. 3 guys. Yet how is it on tunes from the 80s on I can hear keyboards and bass.....Geddy cant do both at once. Then Neil got it set up so when he hit cymbals you heard brass sounds in the drum solo. The list goes on and on.

[Jeff Ream]

8 hours ago, Stu said:

I contend it is because of the type of youth they are now marketing their show designs to and is an extremely wider pool of potential recruits than standard academic marching band kids.  Which, by the way, also has the blow-back of needing the synth, pre-recorded, dubbing, ampllified content those kids desire.

actually band kids are more used to these types of shows in their own world 

[Jeff Ream]

7 hours ago, Just Here said:

Agreed with this. I would go so far as to challenge the "educational" hook in most drum corps today. The experience seems too limiting to call it educational.

oh kids do get taught. thats why you see so many of them going into music education or working with bands or corps after they age out

[Jeff Ream]

2 hours ago, drumcorpsfever said:

Whatever George Hopkins' motivations for the comments that he's made, they're relevant to what's happening now. If you consider the message, not the source, I think you would probably agree that he's made some good points. Among them include:

1) Electrronics have gone in a direction that may not have been anticipated or intended;

2) Use of electronics, though legal and creative, may lead the activity to a place they may not want to go;

3) Creating artificial sounds for voices already in the mix (doubling-tripeling up brass for example) warrants further discussion;

4) Suggests that, perhaps, electroncis may be better suited for creating voices outside of the field instrumentation - such as woodwinds, etc.;

5) Concern for the spectators who have to sit near speakers;

6) Raises issues of stadium walls/environmental aspects having impact on electronic equipment, reverb, projection, sound quality;

7) The rapid proliferation of electronics over a very short period of time - good time to assess the current state of affairs;

8) Impact of sound equipment, the use of sound engineers versus apprentices;

9) Props, props, props - impact of logistics, those tasked with prop responsibilities and impact on the student experience;

10) The implication that the horse is already out of the barn. It's too late to reign it back in anytime soon.   However, even with the topic raised at the Januals, it probably won't be until 2019 before any real change can be made.  

 

So, again, regardless of how one may feel about the messenger, his motivation, etc., these are all good points raised in a very short interview. One other issue Hopkins raised, albeit indirectly, is the economic cost that the electronics, props, and toys have had on drum corps.  It's become an arms race.  It's one that affects the competitive well-being of the DCI membership.  

There's much that was said, even more to be done.

 

all stuff pointed out here before the vote in 2003

[Stu]

Just now, Jeff Ream said:

actually band kids are more used to these types of shows in their own world 

True in that hs band kids have marching shows with these elements. But most kids are not in hs band, and most kids wheter in hs band or not go to the commercial rock/pop concerts not their hs band concerts. And DCI is seeking a way to market to most kids in order to expand the DCI fan and performer base.

[Stu]

17 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

oh kids do get taught. thats why you see so many of them going into music education or working with bands or corps after they age out

In science I was taught there is no such thing as actual perpetual motion. However, the teacher to student to school band to dci corps procees of producing the next teacher self inclosed loop of perpetual motion sure proves that theory wrong!!!!

Edited August 10, 2017 by Stu

[brichtimp]

8 hours ago, Stu said:

Ok, then it is just in the poor implementation of the technology, not the technology itself, in which you have an issue. That I agree with 100%. Every great commercial horn section I have ever heard has had at one time or another been amplified; from Tower of Power to Here Come the Mummies to even Boston and Chicago Symphony Brass. And they all sounded superb!!!

The #### poor implementation is a root cause for a lot of this discussion, and with variables like wildly divergent performance venues and very short time allotted for set-up in competition, I think the 'adults' need to tamp down the bass synth and ampliified volume...seriously. When I view HD video up at the Berlin Phil's Digital Concert Hall, there are all manner of microphones being utilized, but it's primarily in a single venue where the production values have been expertly implemented over the past decade. The result is sound reproduction that does justice to that great ensemble. With DCI, we have to wait for a Blu Ray disc to hear what we couldn't hear well in the lousy acoustics of Lucas Oil, and the latter did no favor live, even to the famous Tilt pitch bend sequence....ymmv.

[Stu]

16 minutes ago, brichtimp said:

The #### poor implementation is a root cause for a lot of this discussion, and with variables like wildly divergent performance venues and very short time allotted for set-up in competition, I think the 'adults' need to tamp down the bass synth and ampliified volume...seriously. When I view HD video up at the Berlin Phil's Digital Concert Hall, there are all manner of microphones being utilized, but it's primarily in a single venue where the production values have been expertly implemented over the past decade. The result is sound reproduction that does justice to that great ensemble. With DCI, we have to wait for a Blu Ray disc to hear what we couldn't hear well in the lousy acoustics of Lucas Oil, and the latter did no favor live, even to the famous Tilt pitch bend sequence....ymmv.

The inherent problem, though, cannot be fixed in DCI because the competition of moving corps on and off the field is so faced paced.  Rock concerts do very well with amplification in stadium venues; however their sound engineers take hours prior to the concert to go through multiple sound checks in order to get the acoustical mix correct.  The problem in DCI is lack of any time 'at all' during amplification set-up to do any meaningful sound checks.  Corps are lucky to even get stuff hooked up, let alone do a brief sound check, without getting a timing penalty. Thus in DCI we end up with the goo, the shrill, the weird mix, the boomy, the feedback, ad infinitum.