A question for the purists: was there more that could have been done?

[Jeff Ream]

18 hours ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

The crowd didn't lose their collective poop over Les Mis or Scheherezade though (or admittedly for Britten and Shostakovich).  They lost it for the showstoppers, and that's something DCI doesn't have anymore.  There are a few exceptions, of course.  But not many.

As much as I gush on Frameworks, no one is humming Frameworks in the shower.

There's simply nothing iconic about what corps play anymore.  Like I said above, in 20 years the only thing people will remember about Jagged Line is the prop.

Music STILL matters, whether WGI likes it or not.  It needs to matter even more.

great reaction for Canyon, done in 99. les Miz got a nice reaction. So did from 04/14.

 

the bottom line is SCVA got a reaction by showing the legacy of the Santa Clara Vanguard organization which spans 50 years, and has been ###### good for the entire time. No other corps can claim being a finalist in every year DCI has held championships. No other corps, and more often than not in the top 6.

[Stu]

20 hours ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

The crowd didn't lose their collective poop over Les Mis or Scheherezade though (or admittedly for Britten and Shostakovich).  They lost it for the showstoppers, and that's something DCI doesn't have anymore.  There are a few exceptions, of course.  But not many.

As much as I gush on Frameworks, no one is humming Frameworks in the shower.

There's simply nothing iconic about what corps play anymore.  Like I said above, in 20 years the only thing people will remember about Jagged Line is the prop.

Music STILL matters, whether WGI likes it or not.  It needs to matter even more.

 

19 hours ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

I hope you're right.  There's just so much self-indulgence calling the shots right now.

 

2 hours ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

Again, I hope you're right.  I can't help but feel very pessimistic for the future of the activity, especially with so many now indoctrinated into thinking all that crap is "kewl".

I distinctly read in your post that appeared just prior these, the one with over 5,000 words, 23,000 characters, and 40 paragraphs,that you stated in the last paragraph, and I quote, " Anyway, that's just about all I've got to say ".  And here you have more to say  Hmmmm.... just an observation.  I am a pain in the arse, but at least I stick to my word. Carry on.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Stu

[ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar]

I'm still tired from the 10+ hour drive to Indy and back. Here's my random thoughts after glancing at this thread.

- I marched a G euph for two years before aging out on a Bb, so consider me qualified on the subject of G vs. Bb: it doesn't matter. G horns sound great when talented people perform good arrangements under good instruction, same as Bb. The G-fetishists can pine for the old days, but unless there's a post-season sales component (how many high school bands play in G?), that's a ship that has long sailed and will never come back.

- I hated amps and vocals in 2004. I thought it ruined "the purely acoustic nature" of drum corps. To be fair, mid-2000s drum corps sort of suffered because many design/staff people had little idea what they were doing ... but they learned. It's continuously improving as the technology improves.

- Drum corps is just like any other live music medium: the electronic component is a fundamental part now, and cannot be ignored. There were (and still are) growing pains, but DCI would have ultimately done a disservice to it's members if the voting directors decided to keep it "pure."

- Comparing current drum corps fans to alcoholics or any other type of addict is a lazy and misguided analogy.

- To answer the OP's question: yeah, plenty more could have been done, but lots of factors brought us to where we are today. I'm sure there would be plenty of cool shows today based on college wind ensemble pieces, featuring mallet players being yelled at to "project" more and hornlines marching on 20+-year-old Dynasty horns ... but there's no real sense in looking back now.

Edited August 14, 2017 by ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar
language

[Bobby L. Collins]

11 minutes ago, ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar said:

- Comparing current drum corps fans to alcoholics or any other type of addict is a lazy and misguided analogy.

Strongly disagree.  I'll even go as far as to say that it can also apply to dinosaurs like myself.  If I wasn't a drum corps addict, I wouldn't have spent the past 17 years taking abuse from yes-men who lack the conviction to stand up for what they claim to believe in.   A lot of fans, like addicts, won't even try to be objective, nor will they try to apply common sense to their rhetoric.  As far as they're concerned, the modern activity is simply wonderful, educational and enriching, because George Hopkins says it's wonderful, educational and enriching.  Critical thinking and objectivity is the way forward, not bootlicking and pandering to WGI and BOA.

[StunnedMonkey]

42 minutes ago, ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar said:

Drum corps is just like any other live music medium: the electronic component is a fundamental part now, and cannot be ignored. There were (and still are) growing pains, but DCI would have ultimately done a disservice to it's members if the voting directors decided to keep it "pure."

Like any other live music medium? By that you mean...fake? You really see it as a disservice to kids by telling them that you've written this music and they'll get to play it on the field and people will actually hear what they sound like? Wow. How awful.

You're right. It's like any other auto-tuned over-produced show biz production now. Like modern pop stars who are just pretty faces on studio tricks and backing tapes. Drums and brass? Bah! It'd be a disservice to expect that from kids without several layers of electronics muddying it all up.

[ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar]

7 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

Strongly disagree.  I'll even go as far as to say that it can also apply to dinosaurs like myself.  If I wasn't a drum corps addict, I wouldn't have spent the past 17 years taking abuse from yes-men who lack the conviction to stand up for what they claim to believe in.   A lot of fans, like addicts, won't even try to be objective, nor will they try to apply common sense to their rhetoric.  As far as they're concerned, the modern activity is simply wonderful, educational and enriching, because George Hopkins says it's wonderful, educational and enriching.  Critical thinking and objectivity is the way forward, not bootlicking and pandering to WGI and BOA.

1) You can use whatever argument you want, I don't get offended about much anymore. Still ... I think it's silly to compare the hell of alcoholism/addiction with whether or not rich kid summer band should use electronics/a certain key of horns.

2) Lots of current fans (who are fine with the direction of the activity) can't stand George Hopkins, myself included.

3) The objective reasons for why the activity is what it currently is has been listed over and over on DCP by people more qualified than myself.

[ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar]

2 minutes ago, StunnedMonkey said:

Like any other live music medium? By that you mean...fake? You really see it as a disservice to kids by telling them that you've written this music and they'll get to play it on the field and people will actually hear what they sound like? Wow. How awful.

You're right. It's like any other auto-tuned over-produced show biz production now. Like modern pop stars who are just pretty faces on studio tricks and backing tapes. Drums and brass? Bah! It'd be a disservice to expect that from kids without several layers of electronics muddying it all up.

I'm talking about A&E at the most basic level.

Think about every recent live music show you've gone to that has sold more than 100 tickets (be it popular or orchestral) ... now think about the role electronics has played at those shows, whether it's amplification or instrumentation.

For the drum corps world to say, "No! We're special" and completely cut out electronics: that would be a disservice, especially to the front ensemble performers.

As I mentioned in the previous post: it's still a work in progress. There are plenty of bad examples, but I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[StunnedMonkey]

1 minute ago, ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar said:

I'm talking about A&E at the most basic level.

Think about every recent live music show you've gone to that has sold more than 100 tickets (be it popular or orchestral) ... now think about the role electronics has played at those shows, whether it's amplification or instrumentation.

For the drum corps world to say, "No! We're special" and completely cut out electronics: that would be a disservice, especially to the front ensemble performers.

As I mentioned in the previous post: it's still a work in progress. There are plenty of bad examples, but I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Why would it be a disservice? DCI existed for 30+ years without amplification and electronic trickery. I don't recall anyone ever complaining about it being a disservice.

It's band. Drums and brass. It doesn't (or shouldn't) need synths and mixers.

 

[Jeff Ream]

57 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

Strongly disagree.  I'll even go as far as to say that it can also apply to dinosaurs like myself.  If I wasn't a drum corps addict, I wouldn't have spent the past 17 years taking abuse from yes-men who lack the conviction to stand up for what they claim to believe in.   A lot of fans, like addicts, won't even try to be objective, nor will they try to apply common sense to their rhetoric.  As far as they're concerned, the modern activity is simply wonderful, educational and enriching, because George Hopkins says it's wonderful, educational and enriching.  Critical thinking and objectivity is the way forward, not bootlicking and pandering to WGI and BOA.

no it's a lazy and quite frankly insulting analogy. 

 

if fans truly hated it, they'd vote with their wallets...and many fans think Hop is a tool, so stop trying to use him as your scapegoat. 20+ other corps voted for a lot of the things you complain about. Bet you didnt even know Madison proposed trombones and french horns did you? Cant blame Hop there.

[Jeff Ream]

29 minutes ago, StunnedMonkey said:

Like any other live music medium? By that you mean...fake? You really see it as a disservice to kids by telling them that you've written this music and they'll get to play it on the field and people will actually hear what they sound like? Wow. How awful.

You're right. It's like any other auto-tuned over-produced show biz production now. Like modern pop stars who are just pretty faces on studio tricks and backing tapes. Drums and brass? Bah! It'd be a disservice to expect that from kids without several layers of electronics muddying it all up.

and pop stars sell out stadium and arenas world wide. bet you loved Led Zeppelin right? Oh wait...they used keyboards, theramins, and pedaled guitar effects.