A question for the purists: was there more that could have been done?

[Jeff Ream]

4 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

We have already debunked that assertion, as there were nowhere near the number of Quebec/Ontario corps that Jeff claimed, and most of them did attend DCIs beyond just the Montreal years.  But if the Canadian draw really had such record-breaking gravity, maybe DCI should have kept staging events in Canada.

My question is the logical corollary to your #1.  If changes are so good, then why did attendance and participation decline all through the 70s and 80s despite the massive changes DCI made in those years?

easy. DCi stopped trying to appease the past at the same time it tried to move forward. it was a self defeating exercise

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

 

It's not "my" vision.  It's the framework that DCI had already initiated, before it abandoned reason for madness.

But at the end of the day, my comments aren't really for you.  They're for the corps directors and techs who read the comments on this site.  Let them read mine, and let them read yours.  Let THEM decide if they should listen to former supporters who have become disenfranchised with the direction of the activity, or listen instead to enablers who blindly praise everything they do without question, and whose mantra is "leave the past in the past".  You say "If you want to change things, do something about it".  I AM doing something about it.  At least I'm trying.   All you're doing is saying that I shouldn't even bother to try.

I don't expect drum corps to go back to 2 valve bugles and high step marching.  But the sweeping changes that are transforming the activity from drum corps into summer guard and marching band MUST be reigned in, they MUST be scrutinized, and they MUST be re-evaluated.  By and large, 2017 shaped up to be a fairly forgettable season, whose recap sound byte on the DVD box set will be "This was the year of leotards, faulty electronics, and even bigger props".  The corps can not keep relying on total sensory overload just to win a medal.  At some point, things MUST go back to a sensible balance between "innovation" and "expense", or else even the founders are going to fold.

 

odds are your comments are providing great comedic appeal to those in charge of DCi today

[Jeff Ream]

52 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

It's just that's all you ever type.  It accounts for well over a quarter of your total posts on this forum.  "It was exactly the same X number of decades ago".

No, it wasn't.  If it were, then this discussion wouldn't be happening every single day among fans.

Now you may sit there and say "Well all you ever say on here is that drum corps sucks today", and true as that may be, I'm bringing as many thoughts and ideas to the table I can think of to the discourse, in the hopes of rational discussion (which is genuinely rare inside this echo chamber).  Your contribution.....your ONLY contribution.....to the discourse is "Pfft, it was exactly the same back in my day".  And it wasn't.  Audience members weren't sticking their fingers in their ears "back in the day" because the amps were too hot like they're doing today, they were instead cupping their hands behind their ears so they could absorb as much of the bugle sound as they possibly could.  Now I could keep going with examples, but I have a feeling you're not too interested unless I give you an opportunity to type "Yeah yeah people have been saying that since the 70s", and I'm not having it.  No one in the 70s was saying "Which corps is that?  I can't tell because they're all wearing ballerina costumes".

no we said "oh God..Tiger of San Pedro and Children of Sanchez again? Oh my god, another Ice Castles? more Birdland?

[BRASSO]

1 minute ago, Jeff Ream said:

as told to me from the DCi office. 

 I wish I had a buck for every time I was told something from someone in the DCI office, that I found out later was not quite accurate. I'd be awash in George Washington paper profiles right about now.

[Jeff Ream]

2 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 I wish I had a buck for every time I was told something from someone in the DCI office, that I found out later was not quite accurate. I'd be awash in George Washington paper profiles right about now.

the contacts i have made have yet to lead me astray.

 

 

if they had, we wouldnt have had the G7 document would we? And in fact, i saw one member of the office posting these comments on facebook, so i reached out for some clarification.

[Fran Haring]

9 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

no we said "oh God..Tiger of San Pedro and Children of Sanchez again? Oh my god, another Ice Castles? more Birdland?

In 1979, I think it was a federal law that every third corps was required to play "Children of Sanchez." 

One of the best songs no one outside of drum corps ever heard.  LOL.

[Stu]

32 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

why not stick to attacking the ideas and viewpoints

 

[Fran Haring]

6 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

the contacts i have made have yet to lead me astray.

 

 

if they had, we wouldnt have had the G7 document would we? And in fact, i saw one member of the office posting these comments on facebook, so i reached out for some clarification.

That will go down in history as the drum corps version of the Pentagon Papers.  LOL.

[BRASSO]

9 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Facts?

- In 1981, there were a grand total of 14 corps from Quebec/Ontario in competition at DCI Championships.  Not 30-40.  They were:

Eclipses

Arc-en-Ciel

Chatelaines

Ventures

Brantford Girls

Bandettes

Dutch Boy

Etoiles Dorion

Bluewater Buccaneers

Aventuriers

2nd Decade

Alliance Musicale

Newmarket Ambassadors

St. Andrew's

- These were not all "school groups".  Nearly all of them were independent.

- Of those 14 corps alleged to have only participated in the Montreal years, 10 went to DCI Championships at other sites.

I am not even sure what you are trying to imply with your "alternative facts".  Of course there were more corps in Montreal in 1981 and 1982.  There were a lot of corps in the Northeastern U.S. back then, as well as Quebec and Ontario.  There were nearly 200 competing junior corps in North America back then... which, like the 35,947 total attendance of the 1981 finals, dwarfs the modern DCI driven activity even with the slight growth of recent years factored in.

Your statement regarding attendance trends is also inaccurate, and I can imagine why.  It is clear from your recent posts that you are trying to attribute recent uptrends to the changes under discussion here.  Since you brought up "facts", how about providing some that support your hypothesis?  Show us how, and when, particular changes caused growth among corps, membership, or spectators.

 I was in Montreal in 1981 for the week of Championships. I really don't care what Jeff says ( he now says " DCI told him this " ). Jeff says " 30-40 groups were there from Quebec & Ontario "... when I know he's wrong and way off . There were ( my words above ) " 12-15".. You just correctly listed ALL the Corps from Ontario/ Quebec Provinces as a follow up to my post,... confirming my number.  As stated above, most of these groups competed earlier in the week, got on their busses, and went home. They were a non factor in the attendance figure for Finals Night. I also know that the DCI office had the stadium post up on the Stadium screen during the Finals the  " 35,947 " Finals Night Attendance figure. I saw it as an eye witness that was present. I still have the picture snapshot in my files on my computer for even further validation. DCI no more cooked the numbers in 1981 than they do today. The silliness of a futile attempt at reivisionist DCI history by some people that were never born, or were not present at Finals in Montreal, does not make the attendance figures announced by DCI itself go away. The " formula " for calculating the Finals Nite Attendance did not change. Only the spin did in the intervening years when the Finals Night attendance figures dipped into the high teens and low 20's. The Finals Night attendance figures are coming back a bit of late. Thats good. The spin that there were not audiences on Finals Night of over 25,000- 35,000 some years in the 80's is not good however. That schizz needs to stop... otherwise that false narrative can have a tendency to take on a life of its own, and that would be most unfortunate, and unfair to those that were present there back then.

Edited August 15, 2017 by BRASSO

[Bobby L. Collins]

I see that a lot on here.  Revisionist history trying to paint a picture in which DCI was horrible in the 70s, 80s and 90s, and always nearing the verge of total collapse, saved from the depths of oblivion only by adding amps and trombones.  Also trying to act like Chuck Mangione wasn't a big act in the late 70s.  Everyone played his music because it was good music, end of story.  Some of the most iconic shows from DCI's history comes from those years.  I challenge anyone to find something from 2017 that's going to be considered "iconic drum corps" in 40 years.  Besides the leotards, of course.