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A question for the purists: was there more that could have been done?


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10 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

So because they're not here, they don't exist?

That's really narrow-minded.  OF COURSE they're not here.  They gave up on you.  They gave up on the activity.  You lot ran most of them off years ago with your incessant trolling and hive mind mentality.  That doesn't change the fact that they exist.  Eliminating bugles was an EXTREMELY unpopular initiative.  Adding microphones and speakers was an EXTREMELY unpopular initiative.  Ditching uniforms for leotards has proven to be an EXTREMELY unpopular initiative.  You guys REALLY need to step outside your insular bubble and take note of what is happening outside it.  They're out there, and they're tired of even trying to get through to you, or to DCI.  They make fun of the activity now, and of how camp it has become.  Me?  I simply haven't given up on it yet.  And if the day comes when I decide to do so, it will be on MY terms, not on the terms of a group of trolls on a message board who have insulated themselves with like minds, none of whom can handle dissenting opinions.

I firmly believe that drum corps can be saved from its own stupidity.  I may be totally mistaken in that it can, but that's how much I care about the activity.  And I will continue to speak out for rational thought, common sense, and temperance among a group that has abandoned all that for decadent excess and frivolity, whether that group likes it or not.

Unbelievable. Know Bobby when to give it up. Not your opinion, but your diatribes and insults. If you did not attack, people you may further your cause.

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12 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

So because they're not here, they don't exist?

That's really narrow-minded.  OF COURSE they're not here.  They gave up on you.  They gave up on the activity.  You lot ran most of them off years ago with your incessant trolling and hive mind mentality.  That doesn't change the fact that they exist.  Eliminating bugles was an EXTREMELY unpopular initiative.  Adding microphones and speakers was an EXTREMELY unpopular initiative.  Ditching uniforms for leotards has proven to be an EXTREMELY unpopular initiative.  You guys REALLY need to step outside your insular bubble and take note of what is happening outside it.  They're out there, and they're tired of even trying to get through to you, or to DCI.  They make fun of the activity now, and of how camp it has become.  Me?  I simply haven't given up on it yet.  And if the day comes when I decide to do so, it will be on MY terms, not on the terms of a group of trolls on a message board who have insulated themselves with like minds, none of whom can handle dissenting opinions.

Growing attendance and ticket sales mean bugger-all if they can't keep up with the escalating costs of DCI's arms race of frivolous and needless props and electronics...not to mention tour fees that only the most privileged kids with the biggest trust funds can afford.  You can't claim that DCI is growing when it's only catering to those willing to shell out the growing expense to watch and/or participate in the activity.  Of course revenue is up....IT COSTS MORE.

I firmly believe that drum corps can be saved from its own stupidity.  I may be totally mistaken in that it can, but that's how much I care about the activity.  And I will continue to speak out for rational thought, common sense, and temperance among a group that has abandoned all that for decadent excess and frivolity, whether that group likes it or not.

It sure appears to be time that you do!  PLEASE GO!

All insults.

Sure we can.  Growing the number of kids willing to pay to participate is growth.  It sounds to me like you have issues with differing wealth strata that go way beyond drum corps.

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3 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

So because they're not here, they don't exist?

That's really narrow-minded.  OF COURSE they're not here.  They gave up on you.  They gave up on the activity.  You lot ran most of them off years ago with your incessant trolling and hive mind mentality.  That doesn't change the fact that they exist.  Eliminating bugles was an EXTREMELY unpopular initiative.  Adding microphones and speakers was an EXTREMELY unpopular initiative.  Ditching uniforms for leotards has proven to be an EXTREMELY unpopular initiative.  You guys REALLY need to step outside your insular bubble and take note of what is happening outside it.  They're out there, and they're tired of even trying to get through to you, or to DCI.  They make fun of the activity now, and of how camp it has become.  Me?  I simply haven't given up on it yet.  And if the day comes when I decide to do so, it will be on MY terms, not on the terms of a group of trolls on a message board who have insulated themselves with like minds, none of whom can handle dissenting opinions.

I firmly believe that drum corps can be saved from its own stupidity.  I may be totally mistaken in that it can, but that's how much I care about the activity.  And I will continue to speak out for rational thought, common sense, and temperance among a group that has abandoned all that for decadent excess and frivolity, whether that group likes it or not.

If they gave up, they are no longer drum corps fans. They are former fans. Since drum corps has had any key horns since 2000, if they left than so be it.

Multi-key horns have been a great change...it permits corps to consistently perform on the latest and most advanced models of horns at a net reduced cost by selling their old horns to scholastic programs.

Amplification is another great change, as it permits the pit instruments to be played in an appropriate manner and use appropriate mallet selection. It also permits more use of vocals, which some do not like, to be sure, but IMO it gets better and better, witness BAC, Crown and the Cadets this season. 

Looking at the uniform designs this season, I like the changes from traditional uniforms to more costuming in general. 

This is like the t-shirt and DCN editorials back in 1971 bemoaning themed shows of Cadets, Scouts and Cavies and calling it the year drum corp died. 

If you (the Royal youi) don't like it, then stay away. That is the bottom line. Plenty of people hated Bayonne when they come out in 76 with the banana unis, yet today they are considered an iconic corps of the 70's and 80's. 

There were letters to the editor of DCN in the early 60's bemoaning the addition of the contra, as it turned hornlines into bands.

I watched the SCV alumni corps here at work Monday, and I had tears streaming down my face...lucky nobody stopped by. It was a GREAT reminder of the historic past of one of the great corps of all time, like 27th in 1994, and others since. If you saw it you saw the current SCV members going nuts over the alumni corps. It was as great as it was precisely as a reminder of their history. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, garfield said:

Now wait, Brasso.  Imagine...

The IRS calls in DCI because someone has reported to them that DCI is inflating its ticket receipts in order to inflate its attainment of its mission.

IRS dude:  "We don't believe your attendance numbers."

DCI dude:  "OK, what do you have to contest it?"

IRS dude:  "Umm, this guy over here named Bobby says you're inflating the numbers."  (Names made up to protect the innocent and throw fictitious tomatoes at the guilty.)

DCI dude:  "Umm, OK, what's HE got?"

crickets

 

Whether DCI's attendance numbers are off by 1000 or 10,000 doesn't matter one whit to the IRS because DCI's mission is to provide performance venues for corps to perform.  Once done, it's the corps that determine how many show up, right?

 Anybody that is an accountant or a CPA would never tell their Client that its ok to intentionally misrepresent what their PAID RECEIPTS were to one of their events., Any attempt to defend an indefensiible practice by virtue of the creation of an imaginary fictional dialogue here only demonstrates a creative imagination perhaps, but has nothing at all to IRS reporting by Organizations on PAID RECEIPTS to events. DCI itself does a filing. Every year. DCI is not LYING to the their Accountants and the IRS here.. So please. Just stop. Ok ?. DCI is not intentionally inflating their attendance figures at their Championships, not in 1981... not today. So just stop with this charge.

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1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:

My problem?

Your problem is you do not see nuance in discussion group posts.

Truth is, there are numerous reasons why corps have faded off.  I would love to "address" them, but the best I can do is wade through the usual discussion group dynamics, agree to disagree with those whose minds are already made up, and hope I informed the few readers still openly considering the issues.

One of those many many reasons (the one alluded to here) is that the "powers that be" have given up on drum corps, and are so invested in the "align with band" strategy that they are willing to take it to the next level, "become band".  We are just one more rule change away from completing that agenda.  IMO, drum corps could have done just fine simply aligning with band, something that has been going on all through the history of the activity anyway.

I think we agree that we are better off without the snobbery you refer to.  That said, I think we would also be better off still having both drum corps and marching band activities, each serving a different flavor of marching music to people with different personal preferences.

If you looked back I had changed You to THE because it's not a you but a general thought on all those who refuse so see the short comings of drum Corps at one point although with all good intentions by many. With that said,. I will agree with your last 2 lines although why do each activity have to serve different people? Again , as i said WE were the ones who invited the band world in . Many staff were not making enough money at one point and in trenched themselves into the band world for many reasons including money. When that happened "WE" changed the face of the band world. You know how many schools didn't want that or the drum Corps influence? You know how many felt drum Corps was a very bad influence on serious music people? MANY. So seems like they could have more of a beef than a minority of drum corps people. Just a thought.

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10 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 Anybody that is an accountant or a CPA would never tell their Client that its ok to intentionally misrepresent what their PAID RECEIPTS were to one of their events. So please, don't embarrass yourself further by attempting to defend an indefensiible practice by virtue of the creation of an imaginary fictional dialogue here that only demonstates a creative imagination perhaps, but has nothong at all to IRS reporting by Organizations on PAID RECEIPTS to events. DCI is not LYING to the their Accountants and the IRS here... at least lets all hope they're not anyway. So please. Just stop. Ok. DCI is not lying on their attendance figures, not in 1981... not today. So just stop with this charge.

Embarrass myself?  Please, lighten up or I'll start calling you Bobby-Brasso.  

You know well enough I'm right:  telling its fan base what paid attendance was and claiming an income number on a 990 are two, different things.  Are you contending that DCI is actually lying about attendance and making up numbers on their reporting?

The IRS doesn't give two whits about "paid attendance" because it's demonstrable that nearly all of DCI's revenue goes to support its mission.

We both know that, in the strictest of terms, the IRS doesn't like liars and cheats but, if you think through your contention and what it might mean to the actual income/expense reporting, you'll see that an intentional or otherwise "misreporting" has little to no effect on whether the IRS would "look kindly" on DCI.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 Anybody that is an accountant or a CPA would never tell their Client that its ok to intentionally misrepresent what their PAID RECEIPTS were to one of their events. So please, don't embarrass yourself further by attempting to defend an indefensiible practice by virtue of the creation of an imaginary fictional dialogue here that only demonstates a creative imagination perhaps, but has nothong at all to IRS reporting by Organizations on PAID RECEIPTS to events. DCI is not LYING to the their Accountants and the IRS here... at least lets all hope they're not anyway. So please. Just stop. Ok. DCI is not lying on their attendance figures, not in 1981... not today. So just stop with this charge.

How many businesses inflate their accomplishments? #### only look to those in power politically. just sayin

You yourself said in another post that often what comes out of the DCI office you found to be different in actuality. or something to that sort. sorry for not looking back for exact quote.

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On ‎8‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 5:15 PM, ouooga said:

I'm personally a fan of the new stuff, but this isn't about me defending it. I want to ask the purists on here, was there more that could have been done with the old style(s)?

I'm not a purist, so my opinion is worth nothing.

To answer the OP, the only things that could have been done with the old style:  1. Protected it    2. Rewarded it.

A particular style or format would have needed to be defined, with any deviation penalized.  Only then would the designers explore more possibilities within the stated parameters.

However, since DCI was formed for the corps to have more control over $$ and creativity, and no inspections, establishing a less restricted format was sort of in the DNA from the start. 

I heard an interesting round table podcast something or other with Shirley Dorritie, a BD guard icon talking about guard changes from military to dance.  The point related here is, they started to do different moves, and the judges were saying, "good, but give us more."  Well the first limitation was the uniforms' restriction on free movement.  Changing the guard uniform became the priority to "give the judges more".  Then various accessories (wings) and more dance were added  which were then also rewarded by judges for creativity and effect.   BD certainly was not alone.  The guard world all kept an eye on each other, taking note of cool things, adapting, improving, enhancing all along the way.

45 years later I'm fascinated by the creativity and excellence from corps, indoor percussion, and guards.

It's a waste of time to argue back and forth about where things are today.  Would it have survived without major changes?  Maybe, maybe not.

For those that want drum corps to be something they want it to be, your only option is to find like-minded people and start new performing organizations, and a new governing body, with the rules you want in place.  If you want to punish the current corps and DCI, your best weapon is the pocketbook.  Refrain from donating, attending etc.  Or, get yourself elected to a Board of Directors, where you can wield all the power.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, MikeD said:

If they gave up, they are no longer drum corps fans. They are former fans. Since drum corps has had any key horns since 2000, if they left than so be it.

Multi-key horns have been a great change...it permits corps to consistently perform on the latest and most advanced models of horns at a net reduced cost by selling their old horns to scholastic programs.

Amplification is another great change, as it permits the pit instruments to be played in an appropriate manner and use appropriate mallet selection. It also permits more use of vocals, which some do not like, to be sure, but IMO it gets better and better, witness BAC, Crown and the Cadets this season. 

Looking at the uniform designs this season, I like the changes from traditional uniforms to more costuming in general. 

This is like the t-shirt and DCN editorials back in 1971 bemoaning themed shows of Cadets, Scouts and Cavies and calling it the year drum corp died. 

If you (the Royal youi) don't like it, then stay away. That is the bottom line. Plenty of people hated Bayonne when they come out in 76 with the banana unis, yet today they are considered an iconic corps of the 70's and 80's. 

There were letters to the editor of DCN in the early 60's bemoaning the addition of the contra, as it turned hornlines into bands.

I watched the SCV alumni corps here at work Monday, and I had tears streaming down my face...lucky nobody stopped by. It was a GREAT reminder of the historic past of one of the great corps of all time, like 27th in 1994, and others since. If you saw it you saw the current SCV members going nuts over the alumni corps. It was as great as it was precisely as a reminder of their history. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And there's YOUR one note.  Love it or leave it.

No.

I'll love it AND despise what it's allowing people like you to turn it into.  And I'll fight to stop it.  I may lose.  But at least I will have fought, and not allowed small-minded people to prevent me from standing up for what I firmly believe in.  

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