Segmentation: How DCI Has Gotten More Complicated... And Less Difficult

[Stu]

11 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said:

This is why, even though I went to school in Dayton, after seeing just one WGI exhibition performance (20+ years ago during halftime of a UD basketball game; don't remember the group, but I do remember they used a recording of Chick Corea's "Spain"), I never followed WGI.

Also why it was ironic that David Byrne, upon seeing some WGI shows a few years ago, felt that what they needed was live music. Which he then arranged a special event for.

Can't change history, nor the present, maybe, but not likely change the future (Byrne is not going to influence the 'experts' running WGI all that much). But it would be beyond cool to have a jazz band on stage at the back of the guard tarp playing Spain while the guard does their thing. That would be great!! But, alas, many of the guard folks hear and see no difference between live music like that and recorded music. To them it is the same because it is all about the visual with sound reinforcement.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Stu

[2muchcoffeeman]

I could spill a few thousand words here, but I've visited this idea previously, prompted by a slightly different context, but the basic point applies here, I think. Some want to break down boundaries and make all things possible. But boundaries define a form. A widely different set of boundaries is the definition of variety. The obliteration of boundaries has the paradoxical effect of reducing variety.

[IllianaLancerContra]

3 hours ago, MikeRapp said:

Well, then why not just put chairs out there in a semicircle? Play the whole ###### show sitting still? Music difficulty and proficiency would be off the charts.

Drum Corps, fundamentally, is about music AND drill. Together. Matched as seamlessly as possible. Corps that do both, together, the best, should win the gold. Just marching your ### off with crappy performance, or just torching the music while standing still, should not be rewarded above corps that do both.

Well said

 

Let's take the current trend to a potential conclusion - get abt 8-10 brass (one of each voice), put them all in the pit & amp them for the entire show.  Same with percussion.  Now have about 120-130 color guard on the field doing all the movement stuff.  Or, better yet, record all the music in a concert setting under the best possible audio conditions.  Have one (1) "musician" in the pit (which is full of amps), who's only job is to press the 'play' button.  Only thing on the field is guard.

[jwillis35]

1 hour ago, N.E. Brigand said:

As regards the two sentences I have bolded, I would say: great! But then maybe they shouldn't be getting first place in visual analysis?

Sure, but does every musical passage have to utilize drill? Sometimes less is more, and there are other times in the show when a more varied and demanding visual compsition is needed. Just my take on it. 

[MikeRapp]

7 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

Sure, but does every musical passage have to utilize drill? Sometimes less is more, and there are other times in the show when a more varied and demanding visual compsition is needed. Just my take on it. 

I don't think we want an activity in which a corps is rewarded for playing all of their most difficult and most important musical passages while standing still. I could be wrong, though, it may actually be what many want and what dci corps prefer.

[Bobby L. Collins]

1 minute ago, jwillis35 said:

Sure, but does every musical passage have to utilize drill? Sometimes less is more, and there are other times in the show when a more varied and demanding visual compsition is needed. Just my take on it. 

But it's not varied at all anymore.  Even when they're not moving, their legs are flailing about as if independent from their bodies.  That's energy that could be better spent forming a new set, or by not being wasted at all.

I'll give you a good example.  Bluecoats 11.  The first big hit of the show.  The design of that buildup and hit mandated a park and bark.  Instead, we got wiggling bodies, as if they were trying to grab the attention of attendees with their noses buried in their smartphones or something.  You do that with your sound (which they were right on target with that hit), not with your legs.  I envision a scenario where when they were learning that set, the brass and percussion instructors turned their backs for 30 seconds, and the visual team swooped in and said "OKGUYSYOUNEEDTODOTHISANDTHISANDTHISANDTHISANDTHISAAAANNNNNNND.....GO!!!!!"  Great music.  HORRIBLE, needless visual.

Last night, SCV Alumni hardly moved at all, yet they still managed to bring down the house, didn't they?  I really hope DCI and corps directors were paying attention to that.  You don't have to instruct your corps to behave in a manner consistent with someone who has just overdosed on Ritalin in order to get a big crowd response.  Now, you might have to do so to win medals, but that's another battle for another day.  Movement and/or a lack of movement is fine.  But pick one of the other.....not both and neither at the same time.  They don't have to sit there and gesticulate during a ballad arc........that's what the guard is for.

And that's a pretty focused essence of the frustration of trying to watch and listen to corps today.  Corps after corps, It's the musical equivalent of a teenager snorting cocaine off a hooker's backside for 12 minutes.

You said "sometimes less is more" and I agree with that 100%. Let the guard dance.  Let the horns and drums march (or even stand still, if the music and design warrants it).  Then there's something for everyone.  Just like SCVA last night.

[jjeffeory]

Well written, and I agree with most of it. I seemed to have run out of likes for a bit. I'll wait for a better time to comment further, but you're onto something here.

I do believe that it is difficult to coordinate some of the visual elements you mentioned above in the learning process, but after people have learned it, it isn't really that difficult to perform if you've got your timing down. I can elaborate more in a bit if I remember.

[jwillis35]

11 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:

I don't think we want an activity in which a corps is rewarded for playing all of their most difficult and most important musical passages while standing still. I could be wrong, though, it may actually be what many want and what dci corps prefer.

I think there has to be a balance. 

[Bobby L. Collins]

14 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

I think there has to be a balance. 

Agreed.  But right now, the scales are not even calibrated.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Bobby L. Collins

[MotoSurfBass]

15 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

I'll give you a good example.  Bluecoats 11.  The first big hit of the show.  The design of that buildup and hit mandated a park and bark.  Instead, we got wiggling bodies, as if they were trying to grab the attention of attendees with their noses buried in their smartphones or something.  You do that with your sound (which they were right on target with that hit), not with your legs.  I envision a scenario where when they were learning that set, the brass and percussion instructors turned their backs for 30 seconds, and the visual team swooped in and said "OKGUYSYOUNEEDTODOTHISANDTHISANDTHISANDTHISANDTHISAAAANNNNNNND.....GO!!!!!"  Great music.  HORRIBLE, needless visual.

Considering the concept and tone of Brave New World, a park-and-bark at the climax of Creep would have been completely inappropriate. Standing completely still, a la The Boxer in 2008 would have been a better choice than a park-and-bark. The "wiggling" we got gave some visual dynamics to an otherwise static visual moment. Take note that there was NO BATTERY PERCUSSION until the very end, when they were already doing drill into the "sunrise" formation. The choreography actually gave the music an extra sense of rhythm to pull the audience in visually. 

15 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

Last night, SCV Alumni hardly moved at all, yet they still managed to bring down the house, didn't they?  I really hope DCI and corps directors were paying attention to that.  You don't have to instruct your corps to behave in a manner consistent with someone who has just overdosed on Ritalin in order to get a big crowd response.  Now, you might have to do so to win medals, but that's another battle for another day.  Movement and/or a lack of movement is fine.  But pick one of the other.....not both and neither at the same time.  They don't have to sit there and gesticulate during a ballad arc........that's what the guard is for.

I don't know what you are getting at here. I think most people know what will bring a crowd to its feet from past observations. Whether the judges also like it is another story, and THAT is for the designers to figure out how to do it, and if they want to do it.

SCV Alumni brought the house down by playing recognizable and nostalgic music loudly and relatively cleanly. That's it. There's nothing for DCI and corps directors to pay attention to other than it was a feel-good performance celebrating the past of DCI's most storied corps and deserved all the thrown babies.

And besides, isn't this discussion based off the idea that we want to see more movement while playing? If some leg wiggle is equivalent to "a teenager snorting cocaine off a hooker's backside" to you, then maybe you're better off watching 1970s performances.

15 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

And that's a pretty focused essence of the frustration of trying to watch and listen to corps today.  Corps after corps, It's the musical equivalent of a teenager snorting cocaine off a hooker's backside for 12 minutes.