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2017 World Championships Finals - Aug 12


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The Cavies show is literally about how much men suck. They are making fun of themselves the whole show. What type of drug does one need to take to believe otherwise?

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21 minutes ago, BigBird said:

Yeah the show is about man, but it's about how bad man sucks lol

posted from the DrumScorps app

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Edited by FlamMan
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10 hours ago, Tim K said:

Not necessarily. If Phantom had males in the guard, the young men in the guard  would have replaced the musicians as the ones having the fantasy and it still would have had the provocatively dressed young women. 

 

I agree with your first part. If Phantom put this final package out on the field last night, a mixed guard wouldn't have stopped them from having the same show. They didn't see the issue with their "fantasm" show at all. 

Quote

I'm to let my inner prude come out and suggest all designers ask the question "Would I let my daughter wear this?" 

I think this is the part that I don't agree with when the discussion of PR's show this year comes up. It really shouldn't matter that they're wearing red lace underwear to perform in. The discussion of what the women wear is really sexist in and of itself (related: the amount of people upset over Bluecoat's guard's outfits is just weird). My frustration is the message that their whole show sends about women. And I agree with Moto that if they had male guard also in sexy red underwear that it would be less about women's dangerous sexuality and more a show about hedonism(?). Or maybe it would still come across as super prude and suggest that sex is bad and everyone should get married to be good? I don't know. The whole show is at least fun because you can talk about it for hours.

I hope designers ask the question, "Do I want to send this dated message to my sons and daughters".

It was asked why we'd be discussing stuff like this after finals night. I personally tried to keep this opinion to myself for the year because shows change and your opinions change from June to August. I figured if we were already talking about the topic of Cavie's show being hateful toward either women or men (don't agree that they are), then it may be okay to ask if anyone else felt the same way I did about PR's guard.

I'm really rooting for PR and I hope that next year we see some changes (maybe some male guard, fingers crossed).

Edited by FancySnack
typos
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9 minutes ago, MotoSurfBass said:

Totally fine. It's your opinion, one that I certainly don't agree with, but valid enough.

This I can't disagree with more.

  1. Judging is not about identity politics. Never has been, never will be. Corps can win championships with all-men, all-women, or all-gender membership. It comes down to design and execution, period.
  2. Women certainly do have just as much, if not more talent as men, but there are 21 other World Class corps that they can march in that give them just as good of a chance to be competitive. There are Finalist corps within 2 hours of each of those all-male corps. 

Name me ONE instance in the show where they trashed or disgraced women, or gave them a hint of a F### You. In fact, they spend more time trashing men than they do praising them throughout the show. 

 

Several points are being debated here.  

The show is not misogynistic, and as you say they make fun of maleness.

However, they should let the girls play too.  While people can join any corps in theory, it is in general a regional activity in that most people seem to come from somewhere in drive-able range to their corps.  And unsurprisingly they drum up (ha!) support for the activity in their area.  Membership demand, in other words, is likely to be higher in areas where top corps exist.  

In the midwest there are three top corps, but only one allows girls to play.  That means only perhaps 75 out of 450 top corps members (or less) can be girls in a region that promotes drum corps intensely.  So the fact that both of the all-male corps are in the same region is a problem, in my opinion.

But yes, for the girls with the airfare to all those spring camps in California or wherever, it's not a problem.

And the show was a fine show.  The Cavaliers take risks of this type in their shows (like last year) which I appreciate.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, BigBird said:

But that's the thing. Having a more enjoyable show doesn't mean it has higher GE. GE is simply how well you get the point or idea of your show across. Bluecoats suffered this year because their ideas weren't connected enough. They had a jazzy opener, a beautiful ballad, a jazzy closer, a huge jagged line, half naked guard, guys in suspenders, bowler hats...? You can sort of tell the connections but it's not as well connected as the other top corps.

posted from the DrumScorps app

Ok well then can someone please explain the BD show to me? I could follow a lot of the shows fairly well Vanguards show got the point across very well although I wasn't particularly a fan it still told the story. It seemed to me the BD show was a lot of move to a spot play then stop and move to another spot play and repeat. It was very confusing to watch and really although it was loud sounded like a lot of noise. No disrespect to any of the members I know they work their ##### off and like all the corps should be proud of their accomplishments I just don't get it sorry. 

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5 minutes ago, FancySnack said:

I agree with your first part. If Phantom put this final package out on the field last night, a mixed guard wouldn't have stopped them from having the same show. They didn't see the issue with their "fantasm" show at all. 

I think this is the part that I don't agree with when the discussion of PR's show this year comes up. It really shouldn't matter that they're wearing red lace underwear to perform in. The discussion of what the women wear is really sexist in and of itself (related: the amount of people upset over Bluecoat's guard's outfits is just weird). My frustration is the message that their whole show sends about women. And I agree with Moto that if they had male guard also in sexy red underwear that it would be less about women's dangerous sexuality and more a show about hedonism(?). Or maybe it would still come across as super prude and suggest that sex is bad and everyone should get married to be good? I don't know. The whole show is at least fun because you can talk about it for hours.

I hope designers ask the question, "Do I want to send this dated message to my sons and daughters".

It was asked why we'd be discussing stuff like this after finals night. I personally tried to keep this opinion to myself for the year because shows change and your opinions change from June to August. I figured if we were already talking about the topic of Cavie's show being hateful toward either women or men (don't agree that they are), then it may be okay to ask if anyone else felt the same way I did about PR's guard.

I'm really rooting for PR and I hope that next year we see some changes (maybe some male guard, fingers crossed).

Really well articulated, your whole post. Especially agree with the part about how discussing specifically what the women are wearing is sexist in of itself. There's really no need for that. 

The message of the show overall is what's important. I'm a big Phantom fan, so it pained me to see some of those design details come through this season. 

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Oh, I have one more thing to get off my chest and leave in the 2017 season.

It seems obvious that all the corps this year understand that electronics/synth/artificalsound is necessary to competition now, but so many of them from top to bottom have no idea how to actually use these tools effectively in their shows - just that it's necessary to compete. And I'm not talking about mic issues or mistakes that happen when a speaker doesn't work. I'm talking about laying prereorded music/vocals/sound effects into their show and just mixing the sound wrong. So many jarring moments in the shows. And I wish a few of the corps would just abandon the use of voice over/narration if they don't have a professional working on it.

That said, I expect to see more of the same next year. It doesn't look like its going anywhere.

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