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Carolina Crown 2018


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48 minutes ago, CrownBariDad said:

Would be a nice surprise finale, a la "Freebird"/Rach Star.

I loved Freebird...I Neve rthought it would translate well to the field, but #### if it did!!!

Edited by Incognito365
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21 hours ago, Cappybara said:

Sure. Keep in mind these are my opinions, no need to get riled up over them, and remember, you asked for them, this was not unsolicited. 

.......<cut for size>

I can't comment on the technical aspects of the orchestration. Their brass and percussion are scoring fantastically, I trust the judge's assessment on that. It's a talented corps, but there's a lot that I feel like the design team needs to flesh out better and little time to do so. 

Not sure you really answered the question about "inadequate".  Honestly that word choice seems more of an insult than design term.  But..whatever.

Most of your commentary seems to center around a few themes:

First, you don't think the production fits your expectation of a show title "Beast". This is completely fair.  I agree that it's not clear at all what Crown is going for (and that's entirely their fault).  I believe you're off-track when you're trying to find a story or plot.  I don't think it's there at all.  In my view this is an abstract show about the nature  of the beast (maybe even the "beast" nature inside each of us).    I have no doubt the judges have a clear understanding of the designers intent.  But the designers have a duty to take the audience on the journey - not just the judges.  This same criticiism can be leveled at many DCI shows (eg.  the BD show is incomprehensible if you're not aware of the painting.  Once you have that knowledge its all makes far more sense).  

Now to the  details you mentioned:

The bone yard.  Not sure where anyone is picking up teeth or claws.  Those comments seem deliberately obscure.  I saw it and thought bones.  When you see lots of bones lying around,  somethings been doing a lot killing.  

Appropriateness of music.  Well I think you're applying your beast story to the music and it's not fitting.  OTOH the question of "why does this piece of music" is a perfectly valid question that Crown leaves unanswered.  Certainly there is plenty of powerful, aggressive music  but how does its take us on a journey through the show?   The ballad shows a tender side to the beast aspect and certainly suggests that nature of beast is not entirely about strength and aggression.   And while the ending has a sense of conclusion,  not being able to say what that conclusion is certainly can leave you wanting.

Reliance on the horn line. Well I have to admit this made me laugh.  Last year we heard from you and many others: "Why make that wonderful horn line a backup band for the vocalist?"    Now we hear "Oh you're featuring the horn line too much".  Make up your mind!  As for the brass being the only section featured, I'd disagree. This is as percussion-heavy a show as Crown has ever done.  And the guard is frequently the center of attention.

The beast prop.  I disagree that it's treated as an obstacle.  It's just there like any other "flat" you'd see in a show.   While constantly pushing props around the field is a choice,  so is just putting a picture on the field.   Crowns production relies far more on drill and staging than rolling props around ;  the props just set the atmosphere.  If you haven't seen the show before, do you wonder what the nessie prop is?  Does it's purpose create a sense of intrigue?  Are you surprised when it becomes active?  Certainly once you've seen it,  it's no mystery.  Being able to put that aside and react on the merits  is why judges get paid the big bucks.

I think you missed a few things like color palette and costuming.  The guard is really well integrated but their costuming doesn't give them a great deal of contrast with the brass/battery;  they get a bit lost.    The overall picture is just a little too busy.  The dangles under the arms of the brass are really creepy -- they look like another set of arms.  But they don't help with form clarity or individual marching. Given that dark, busy stage the flag designs also sometimes just get lost.  We'll see what happens here.  It's not like flags are so expensive you can't ditch them and reload. 

Just to summarize,  your main point seems to be "I don't get it".  I think every single Crown fan is right with you;  we don't quite get it yet either.  But -- as fans -- we're hoping things become clearer as they season progresses.    Look at what just adding a little girl did to Ink;  things suddenly crystallized.  Of course there's also the technical strength of the performers and the program to consider.  We'll  see what happens.  As fans we're working like to crazy to see the glass half-full!  

But thanks for taking the time to actually respond.  Your long response was far better than your "inadequate" quip.   Perhaps finding a happy medium might lead to better discussions in the future.

Edited by karuna
typos repaired
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I’m not trying to troll or be rude, but I was wondering... is it really possible that Crown finishes 6th this year? It seems like an off year for Crown, but it would be much more reflective of the talent of the other 5 corps, not the lack of talent in Crown. They’re obviously very talented.

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2 minutes ago, MidWAmericanArts said:

I’m not trying to troll or be rude, but I was wondering... is it really possible that Crown finishes 6th this year? It seems like an off year for Crown, but it would be much more reflective of the talent of the other 5 corps, not the lack of talent in Crown. They’re obviously very talented.

I think it is absolutely possible, and a bit of an off year but probably more reflective of the progress of other corps.  A couple of years ago, this show might have been 3rd or 4th but SCV has surged to the top, Boston has shot up, and the Cavs have continued to climb.  There are no bad corps in the top 6, just some that are slightly more incredible than others.  Also, I do think they haven't entirely recovered from the staff losses that occurred between 2016 and 2017.

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1 minute ago, skevinp said:

I think it is absolutely possible, and a bit of an off year but probably more reflective of the progress of other corps.  A couple of years ago, this show might have been 3rd or 4th but SCV has surged to the top, Boston has shot up, and the Cavs have continued to climb.  There are no bad corps in the top 6, just some that are slightly more incredible than others.  Also, I do think they haven't entirely recovered from the staff losses that occurred between 2016 and 2017.

You said it better then I could.

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6 minutes ago, skevinp said:

I think it is absolutely possible, and a bit of an off year but probably more reflective of the progress of other corps.  A couple of years ago, this show might have been 3rd or 4th but SCV has surged to the top, Boston has shot up, and the Cavs have continued to climb.  There are no bad corps in the top 6, just some that are slightly more incredible than others.  Also, I do think they haven't entirely recovered from the staff losses that occurred between 2016 and 2017.

 

3 minutes ago, Cadevilina Crown said:

You said it better then I could.

It's definitetly possible. Let's see where Crown places on Sunday. I would say as well that there are no bad corps in the top 6, just some have a slightly better "Show Design"

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32 minutes ago, ndrudy2013 said:

 

It's definitetly possible. Let's see where Crown places on Sunday. I would say as well that there are no bad corps in the top 6, just some have a slightly better "Show Design"

Percussion and Brass will compete for winning their captions.   That usually brings along the MA caption.  Crown has also been very good finishing in the VP and VA captions;  they know how to get clean!  If you put that all together it becomes IMO pretty unlikely that Crown falls to 6th.  Also -- there are  DCI HOF designers on staff.  They know how to respond to judge commentary.  

Many fans of other corps are (with obvious and understandable motives) ready to count Crown out.  That may be less than wise to do.  

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While Crown's show idea is a little murky right now, there are other corps' shows that I just do not get at all, Blue Devils and Bluecoats being two of them. Blue Devils always have the abstract show, and now it seems that the Bluecoats are going that same direction judging by the past 2-3 years, but yet they get all the GE, and I do not understand why they do. Downside Up won GE, and I could never figure out what the show was really about, and I feel the same way about this years Bloo show. It's jazzy (not my favorite) and they are loud, but the show does not appeal to me. Crown's show is about a Beast of some kind (does not have to have fur for those of you who are complaining about the lizard uniforms) and while the show is a little hard to understand right now, it is easier to understand than other corps' shows (this is my opinion so don't jump on me for being "wrong"). I am definitely not counting out Crown yet. This seems to be the first time this season that Crown can use rehearsal days effectively instead of trying to finish the show like they had to do in Muncie. I am excited to see what they perform on Sunday and expect some changes to the music and maybe some effects to depict more "beastly" things. And as always, go Crown!

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I think Crown has tried to follow the Devil's path, sacrificing drill for staging and shoehorning concepts where they don't fit. For instance, Beiber in a Tempest show that had nothing to do with the Tempest, K-pop in a cluttered storybook show, whatever the heck last year was.

 While this has worked for BD, the lack of drill demand and cohesive theme is penalized on the east coast.  I miss the Crown of 2012 -2017.

Ironically, the Devils have a challenging show this year, and they are scoring relatively poorly.  

So maybe I don't know what I am talking about.

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