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Madison Scouts 2018


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9 hours ago, ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar said:

I always thought not purchasing items during fuel/rest stops was a standard thing, especially if it's a full-size group.

Not allowing bathroom breaks is just silly, though.

That's horrifying, but not that surprising. I know several people who marched with you, and saw some early shows when you guys were in MN (including a rehearsal in Mankato that seemed pretty brutal) ... I'm amazed by how different/better the product was by the end of the season.

What's funny is he also wrote drill for Southwind, who also ended up rewriting a bunch of his stuff as well.

I love kato-town! Jakes Stadium Pizza for the win! But yes, those rehearsals were beyond brutal!!! 

 

Also, about purchasing things: 2008/2009 scouts was the only time that was the rule in my experience. Would love to get more data from other corps/people/time periods to see how much that was the case or not though.

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11 hours ago, ndkbass said:

I love kato-town! Jakes Stadium Pizza for the win! But yes, those rehearsals were beyond brutal!!! 

 

Also, about purchasing things: 2008/2009 scouts was the only time that was the rule in my experience. Would love to get more data from other corps/people/time periods to see how much that was the case or not though.

I marched a single season with the Scouts in 90 and I believe we set a Scouts record for number of free days -

I do not ever recall there being any limits on buying or getting off the bus - we didn't stop at gas/truck stops usually though - I think we mainly always stopped at rest areas -- 

In the Blue Stars we stopped at small gas stations all the time -- when it was expected that this was just a gas stop for the equipment we had a simple saying --
"Pee-no-buy" No one ever had a problem with it -- 

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On 6/11/2018 at 6:04 PM, queenanne_1536 said:
  1. The last time Madison beat Blue Devils at finals was 1988. The last time Madison beat Blue Devils at any point in the season was 1991.
  2. The last time Madison beat the Cadets at finals was 1988. The last time Madison beat the Cadets at any point in the season was 1995.
  3. The last time Madison beat Bluecoats at finals was 2000. The last time Madison beat Bluecoats at any point in the season was 2005.
  4. The last time Madison beat Phantom at finals was 1999. The last time Madison beat Phantom at any point in the season was 2005.
  5. The last time Madison beat Santa Clara at finals was 2005. 2005 finals was the last time Madison beat Santa Clara.
  6. The last time Madison beat Crown at finals was 2005. 2005 finals was the last time Madison beat Crown.

Even with those statistics, it was a rare event, after 1988, for Madison to beat Phantom during successive seasons, and even a rarer event for them to beat Blue Devils, Cadets, Cavaliers (until 2012, and since 2015), Santa Clara, and Star (until they left). From finals 1997 until 2012, Madison hadn't beaten Cavies once.

Obviously a huge huge huge problem. So, yes, there is a lack of talent going to Madison. Why cripple that further by remaining all male. It is a competitive activity, and things are different today than they were in 1995 or 1996. Corps don't get most of their membership locally, and the membership of the top corps is made up much more of serious musicians and dancers who want to learn from the best and be the best. Madison helps feed the top corps with membership now. That saddens me.

Can you honestly say if Madison had placed 13th in 1993 and 12th in 1994 that you would have wanted to march there? No judgement here - I wanted to march in one corps, but they weren't perennial top 3, so I marched else where because I wanted to march with the best and win. Still, Madison was always on my radar, along with the other top corps, because I never once thought we were guaranteed to beat Madison, at least at our first meeting. Now, those top corps don't give Madison a passing thought. That is sad.

I have always loved Madison - they are such a class act, and the guys that marched there when I marched were so cool and fun. I just want to see them kick some butt again.

How many times have Bluecoats beaten BD? Or the Colts? Or any number of other co-ed drum corps? Lots of research to not make the point you were trying to make.

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On 6/11/2018 at 11:58 PM, queenanne_1536 said:

I get where you are coming from. I am not saying females are the answer. I'm saying excluding them from your ranks excludes 1/2 of the talent pool. Example, if 100 people show up to audition for the guard and the best 30 (using an easy number here) are made up of 15 males and 15 females, but you exclude the females, you are already weakening yourself and those 15 females are either headed northwest to Lacrosse or south to Rockford, or some where else. Out of those 100, you are choosing members from the best to the very least successful.

Also, in my opinion Cavaliers are the biggest draw in the midwest, so that is why lack of females doesn't impact them nearly as much. In fact, in the midwest, Madison probably ranks 4th in terms of draw behind Cavies, Phantom and Blue Stars. Limiting yourself further but excluding 1/2 of the talent pool doesn't help.  

Also, most corps are already male-heavy. Outside of guard, there are many more males than females marching.

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On 6/12/2018 at 12:04 PM, ndkbass said:

Is it though?

 

Talented members are required for excellent execution which secures higher placement since better execution guarantees higher rewards from judges since they have less to critique.

Talented staff is required to design excellent art for membership to execute at a level they can do so well so that a higher placement can be secured.

Talented administration is also required to maintain and manage talented membership and staff (think about how many professional sports teams waste talent by having a terrible front office).

 

I think talent is certainly a big part of it, and I agree with queenanne_1536 that limiting yourself to only a set pool of possible talent when other factors are already mitigating the availability of that pool of talent is not helpful.

 

I marched Madison not because it was all-male.  I had already marched co-ed organizations.  I marched Madison because I had always wanted to do so since I always enjoyed the shows they performed and the reaction they received from the crowd as a child before I was old enough to march.  This is the case for most of the members I know.  I do not really recall anyone wanting to march Madison solely because it was all-male (I could obviously be missing folks who did though).

 

I left Madison because the administration is an absolute #### show and has no idea how to properly manage or maintain talented members and talented staff.  Why would I (let alone anyone) want to age-out there when they disregarded appropriate input from staff (both design and teaching) and when they claimed to be all about self-governance by/for the membership but did nothing but circumvent what the membership (especially veteran members/leadership) were advocating for?

 

In 2009, the talent that was in Madison was nothing compared to the talent in 2008.  It was really hard for a lot of members to admit that in the pre-season and all-days.  It was glaringly obvious to some of us, and it was also glaringly obvious that the financial problems contributed to the issue since the administration forced caption heads to contract people who were not talented so that the corps could have money during the winter/spring when we could have waited for more talented cuts from higher placing corps.  This was something the administration refused to acknowledge even though pretty much all the staff made the issue absolutely clear to veteran members/leadership across the course of the season.  It also does not help that, like some other posters have mentioned both here and in other threads, this administration does not do a good job paying and securing/retaining talented staff.  I love James Sparling, and the percussion staff in general the last few years has been decent, but there is always awkward turnover that you do not see in other corps (and not just in percussion).  Further, in 2009, one of the ways the administration tried to cut costs was by absolutely decimating the food program.  How can you expect talented or not-so-talented members to perform well or maintain any consistent level of performance when they are not being fed adequately or appropriately?  It was not uncommon to run out of food at meals in 2009, and that really ###### me off since the corps had had an excellent food program since 2004.

 

The biggest reason I left Madison was because the administration inadvertently screwed up the design, teaching, and placement of the corps in 2009 and did not seem to care at all.  They seemed to see it as a success because they were able to recruit Mason into basically "buying" the corps.  What a waste.  If the administration had not tried to duck and cover the whole season and the leadership/veteran members were able to have an open and honest dialogue from the beginning everyone would have recognized that 2009 was not 2008, and was certainly more like 2007, and could have worked together to introduce and educate the newest members into the brotherhood in a way that talked about standing on the shoulders of those who come before you and being the shoulders of those who come after so we could have salvaged the season in a way that did not focus on trying to make finals when that was clearly, in my opinion, never a possibility from the get go.  I believe that all of this goes to show that it is quite certainly about talent.  In 2008-2009 I was in my first ever season in WGI competition with Rhythm X and we ended up winning and setting a WGI high score (at the time).  I did not know I was that talented, and still do not believe that I am.  However, that experience, of seeing what a different kind of organization does and how they do it (not that X is perfect, X is, and especially was at that time, far from perfect), made the obvious deficiencies of Madison 2009 quite painful and jarring for me and other members who thought like me.  Especially when it seemed like the vast majority of vets bought Dann Petersen's asinine mantra hook, line, and sinker.  Homie was passed out incoherent on finals day when we were supposed to chat about 2010 and whether or not I would return.  I had already known I was not returning, but that definitely was a send off that reinforced things for me.

Sad. And something I’ve suspected for awhile now.

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On 6/13/2018 at 2:39 PM, queenanne_1536 said:

Were are you getting that there's a lot of dissent? I have a couple friends who marched there and they said there is no dissent, at least based on the posts on the Facebook alumni page.

Well, in one respect, you’re right...as there are a lot of alumni drinking the koolaid being fed to them by this admin. But there are also a LOT of upset alumni that aren’t always as vocal. It seems to be a pre-2000’s group, versus a post-2000’s group that is like:

this-is-fine.0.jpg

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On 6/13/2018 at 3:04 PM, ndkbass said:

Yup.  I feel like the older generations of alumni cannot accept the loss of Scott Stewart's leadership, and cling to every whim of his legacy in a way that is destroying the corps from the inside out.

That’s where you’re wrong. Scott had reached the end and needed to go. His paranoia of the politics of DCI had gotten to tin-foil hat levels. Love the guy and loved his leadership, but he needed to move on. I don’t think expecting that KIND of leadership from his successors to be a bad thing. You don’t have to be Scott Stewart to lead the Madison Scouts.

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Whitewater is my tour premier this year. Regardless of what’s going on with Scouts politics and issues, will be great to see them on the field in one week.

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1 hour ago, BigBadMadMan said:

That’s where you’re wrong. Scott had reached the end and needed to go. His paranoia of the politics of DCI had gotten to tin-foil hat levels. Love the guy and loved his leadership, but he needed to move on. I don’t think expecting that KIND of leadership from his successors to be a bad thing. You don’t have to be Scott Stewart to lead the Madison Scouts.

Perhaps.

Either way, I would love a charismatic leader like him, I just do not think it is the current admin.

Totally hear you on the tin-foil levels.  I wonder how much of that was a precursor to or symptoms of his illness?  I do not want to speculate though, and totally respect individual/family privacy around medical history.

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