HockeyDad Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 24 minutes ago, brianella said: From my conversations with former staff and bod, ck has dictatorial powers that are rubber stamped by the BOD, Strange. Seems like I've read this exact thing somewhere before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 1 hour ago, tesmusic said: I'm curious, besides change in leadership-because that horse has been beaten to death. How would you right the ship? Who would you bring in? So many people on here and other sitesare simply calling for leadership change and I have yet to see people making honest suggestions or giving their plan. Not trying to be a dick or be snarky, just an honest question. Are you suggesting that no action can be taken until a comprehensive recovery plan is developed and laid out by DCP posters? That's a straw man. Step one is removal of the ED, director and apparently the BOD (just like Cadets. Apparently not such a crazy idea). Until step one is taken, there is no point in discussing steps two through x. Cadets organization made it happen. Is their alumni base more capable than Madison's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesmusic Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 29 minutes ago, brianella said: I believe the change leadership horse u talk about is not quite dead. This particular battle cry has been crescendoing for several years. Just wait until they are 14-16 in rank. It will be a bold in your face company front cry for leadership change. The only change since 2013, has been Jim Mason leaving. So I believe my own and perhaps others frustration has come from exactly what Mad75 has said. I have no faith in the leadership. Period. From my conversations with former staff and bod, ck has dictatorial powers that are rubber stamped by the BOD, I don’t want to diminish his passion for the corps, but I believe there are 2 problems, financially I understand they are not actually that much better off. 2, creatively, that is the dead horse beaten up. I don’t care about electronics, wgi on the field, and the whole it was better in the 80s. I do care that the shows are not artistic or entertaining. All this is on the leadership, especially the executive director. My solution, I’ll scream it on every blog I can find, JIM MASON. I'm all in on Mason, but not sure he would come back if a change is made. My point was, though, that the only solutions I'm seeing here and with my fellow alums on other sites is that CK needs to go, and virtually no other solutions. I'm also not saying a change in ED would be bad, but it's silly to think that would be the perfect fix, and only solution. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skevinp Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 30 minutes ago, tesmusic said: I'm all in on Mason, but not sure he would come back if a change is made. My point was, though, that the only solutions I'm seeing here and with my fellow alums on other sites is that CK needs to go, and virtually no other solutions. I'm also not saying a change in ED would be bad, but it's silly to think that would be the perfect fix, and only solution. It doesn't seem feasible, under these circumstances, to try to select the next guy while the current one is still here. Doing so openly would be distrspectful, and doing so in a secret fashion would severely constrain the chances of a good outcome. Also, it seems to me that nothing should be done until this season is over. I can't imagine that all the talk right now isgood for the marching members. Finally, you say you aren't sure Mason would come back. That leads me to wonder if he might be helpful in some kind of interim role to find and put the next leadership in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianella Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, HockeyDad said: Strange. Seems like I've read this exact thing somewhere before. I believe we are in agreement more or less on this blog. Well could be this week, could be last month, last year, the year before, could be over the last several years. It could have been me, it could have been someone else. Clearly there is a fork in the road now and after this season. For myself, I prefer clarity. I’ve sadly watched too many fine drum Corp go under to silently watch it happen to the scouts. Edited July 15, 2018 by brianella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madisonsmiley Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 7 hours ago, HockeyDad said: Cadets organization made it happen. Is their alumni base more capable than Madison's? They got a little nudge from DCI. The conversation went something like this, you want to play music games, then here's what needs to happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 9 hours ago, tesmusic said: I'm curious, besides change in leadership-because that horse has been beaten to death. How would you right the ship? Who would you bring in? So many people on here and other sitesare simply calling for leadership change and I have yet to see people making honest suggestions or giving their plan. Not trying to be a dick or be snarky, just an honest question. You don’t right the ship. They flip coed so many alumni will walk away totally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoSurfBass Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 21 hours ago, HockeyDad said: Are you suggesting that no action can be taken until a comprehensive recovery plan is developed and laid out by DCP posters? That's a straw man. Step one is removal of the ED, director and apparently the BOD (just like Cadets. Apparently not such a crazy idea). Until step one is taken, there is no point in discussing steps two through x. Cadets organization made it happen. Is their alumni base more capable than Madison's? 1. That's not a straw man argument. In fact, you saying that @tesmusic said that no action can be taken until a plan is developed is a straw man argument itself. 2. So your solution is to fire everybody and then develop a plan? What happens to the Scouts in that time in between? Situations won't improve without a director or BoD steering the ship, that's for sure. 3. As for the Cadets, most of those alumni were already thinking forward and progressing with the activity. They understood and embraced evolution and change, making this season still competitive while embracing part of the past. Scouts alumni, on the other hand (or at least the most vocal ones) appear to be far, FAR less progressive and more resistant to evolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoSurfBass Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 21 hours ago, skevinp said: It doesn't seem feasible, under these circumstances, to try to select the next guy while the current one is still here. Doing so openly would be distrspectful, and doing so in a secret fashion would severely constrain the chances of a good outcome. You speak as if this whole conversation so far HAS been respectful and secretive. I'm sure CK and DP are very much aware of the situation and the animosity towards them. I agree that if a change IS made, it won't be until the end of August or early September at the earliest. As for Jim Mason, my thoughts on him have been well documented on here before. He's one of the most prolific program designers in DCI history, but by the end of his previous run at Madison it was clear that the activity's evolution and his visions were on slightly divergent paths. I love the guy, but I don't think he's the guy if you want Madison to take that big leap forward back into the Top 8. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 45 minutes ago, MotoSurfBass said: 1. That's not a straw man argument. In fact, you saying that @tesmusic said that no action can be taken until a plan is developed is a straw man argument itself. 2. So your solution is to fire everybody and then develop a plan? What happens to the Scouts in that time in between? Situations won't improve without a director or BoD steering the ship, that's for sure. 3. As for the Cadets, most of those alumni were already thinking forward and progressing with the activity. They understood and embraced evolution and change, making this season still competitive while embracing part of the past. Scouts alumni, on the other hand (or at least the most vocal ones) appear to be far, FAR less progressive and more resistant to evolution. Yes, my solution is to fire the ED, director and BOD and NOT replace them. Yes. Bravo. Oh wait - nowhere did I say that. And as to your point #3, you are saying this based on some sort of information you have that I don't? Can you share that? Or is this perception on your part based on your feelings? You're basically saying the Scouts organization sucks and if the present leadership team (motto: sometimes 15th place is pretty good!) were sacked, the Scouts would fold because other than them, there are zero people capable and willing to step in. Yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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