brianella Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Sorry Brasso wasn’t aware u were not an alumni. A little background is good, I think. The Scouts alumni page at Facebook was a closed group that was the proper place for sentiments such as mine. I assume I’m the villain in your post. Anyways, the group was closed instead of dealing with the conduct of a few members on an individual basis. Someone with 1st hand info I spoke to said it was done as a suggestion from the leadership team. What got me with the alumni page is it seems symptomatic of the very problem of the leadership. Too much bMaybe your efforts would be welcome to reopen a closed page for alumni. Before I fully switch allegiance I wanted to give my 2 cents to the debate. So if this is a final break at least I tried before I walk away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, brianella said: Sorry Brasso wasn’t aware u were not an alumni. A little background is good, I think. The Scouts alumni page at Facebook was a closed group that was the proper place for sentiments such as mine. I assume I’m the villain in your post. Anyways, the group was closed instead of dealing with the conduct of a few members on an individual basis. Someone with 1st hand info I spoke to said it was done as a suggestion from the leadership team. What got me with the alumni page is it seems symptomatic of the very problem of the leadership. Too much bMaybe your efforts would be welcome to reopen a closed page for alumni. Before I fully switch allegiance I wanted to give my 2 cents to the debate. So if this is a final break at least I tried before I walk away. I suppose.. I mean, I did not know anything about that closed Alumni facebook site closing, for example. Thats unfortunate. Maybe you all can start another one on your own.. and keep it closed, even to current Mgt there should you chose too. That way you've got a site to privately vent... and heck, maybe even strategize how you all can become an Agent for Change there with the Madison Scouts, or something along those lines. Privately. This on DCP ? I don't know Man. I'm just not seeing the future benefits with all the pages worth of public criticisms of mgt there thats going to make things better in the future for the Madison Scouts. Edited July 17, 2018 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBLUE Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 2 hours ago, kdaddy said: Koter helped to win five titles from 00-06. If the point is "Gaines is the reason that SCV is good," then the same argument would be "Gaines is the reason that Cavies were good from 99-11." In which case, I would ask "then why replace Koter?" I mean, if he's given no credit for any success, why credit him with any failures? Think you proved my point. “Gaines is the reason that Cavies were good from 99-11.” Gaines is that good, he’s next level good. Cavies also had people like Bruno, Jeff, Saucedo and Casella on staff at that time. Not saying that Koter had no hand in the successes, but it was apparent that the trends in the activity were changing and the Cavies were not. Move to 2016...new design staff, new look, better results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftwdrummer Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, GREENBLUE said: Think you proved my point. “Gaines is the reason that Cavies were good from 99-11.” Gaines is that good, he’s next level good. Cavies also had people like Bruno, Jeff, Saucedo and Casella on staff at that time. Not saying that Koter had no hand in the successes, but it was apparent that the trends in the activity were changing and the Cavies were not. Move to 2016...new design staff, new look, better results. If I may--correct me if I'm wrong, but your sentiment seems to be Gaines (and also Saucedo/Casella/Bruno/Jeff, but mostly Gaines, as he's the one of that set that was definitely there through 2011) helped cover the weaknesses in Koter's design ideas? Because if so, that's basically exactly how I see it. And I don't think you would have seen as big of a drop from 2011 to 2012 if Gaines stays for 2012 (if for no other reason than some of the poorer visual ideas might have gotten edited out). Edited July 17, 2018 by ftwdrummer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianella Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 49 minutes ago, BRASSO said: I suppose.. I mean, I did not know anything about that closed Alumni facebook site closing, for example. Thats unfortunate. Maybe you all can start another one on your own.. and keep it closed, even to current Mgt there should you chose too. That way you've got a site to privately vent... and heck, maybe even strategize how you all can become an Agent for Change there with the Madison Scouts, or something along those lines. Privately. This on DCP ? I don't know Man. I'm just not seeing the future benefits with all the pages worth of public criticisms of mgt there thats going to make things better in the future for the Madison Scouts. I see the benefits as keeping Madison’s name off the list including 27th Lancers, North Star, Bridgemen, Guardsmen, Kingsmen, velvet Knights, you get it. I’m sorry but it is unavoidable this playing out in public, it’s the show and the scores that are public. I also feel that seeing how this is going on for numerous years and has gotten worse, keeping leadership’s feet to the fire is beneficial. It’s becoming now or never. If I’m the only one or there is a minority who fear this then fine. In my view that is the trajectory they are on . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad75 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 4 hours ago, BRASSO said: Its really regrettable to see Madison Scouts Alums so down on their Corps and so publically like this. Some Alums are even publically dropping support for their Corps, and moving their support and donations to other competing Corps. Publically expressing this abandonment too. So the Show Design for 2018 might not be up to Alums expectations. Or Placements not up to Alums expectations. So this is the reason to lash out publically like this ? Whatever happened to taking things in house ?... privately... to fix placements/ show designs ? If Madison Scouts Alums think that publically lashing out like this... or publically announcing they are abandoning ship in their support, is anything but counterproductive to improving things there, then I fail to see how such public hostility/ abandonment serves any useful purpose at all in attempts to future improve things . But... thats of course, not my call, as I have no skin in the game, like the Madison Scouts Alums do. I just wish most Madison Scouts Alums would ponder and reflect a bit more, and reevaluate if going so publically hostile like this with mgt, Staff is the right way to go about this.. and during the summer no less when their kids are still out there performing and competing... instead of quietly, methodically, and privately coming together there to figure out the best way to implement the changes needed to improve things there. AND... I get that. But tell me the benefit of going so public with this. How does this help in any manner. ? Again, I'm not attempting to diminish in any way the frustrations you all feel here. I'm just not getting how you all believe going so public like this in this manner can help things. What am I missing ? As I'm not seeing much upside to this strategy at the moment.. just a whole lot of downside to these very public bursts of angriness and frustrations, as real as they may be for you all. Might this all be be handled better among yourselves... and in private ? And the timing. Your Madison Scouts marchers are still out there competing while all these public protestations are taking place so publically like this. How does this help the current marchers advance this season in any way ? BRASSO, what you're seeing "here" is a level of fever pitch frustration that for all practical purposes has nowhere left to go other than places like this to publicly vent! I agree, the most effective route would be to keep "family matters" behind closed doors. Unfortunately, this is the level that things deteriorate too when communication and efforts to help or fix matters have been thwarted, and or shown the middle finger by the likes of Ck, DP, the Board President and Board over the coarse of the past 10 years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad75 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, bass5 said: The Scouts alumni page was not run by "the leadership" but rather by 2 alumni who started it years ago. They shut it down on their own because of all the BS they had to weed through daily and didn't have the time or desire to do so. Partially correct...I was told just a few days ago by the original creator of the Alumni FB Page that he was ALSO contacted by CK to shut the page down! Furthermore, the Originator of the "page" was being threatened to have attorneys come after him for things not liked by this extremely hostile PC "later day" alum! THIS is how bad the division has become (CK, DP, Board President and Board are hugely responsible and complacent in creating this current toxic environment)! The PB page originator threw in the towel and said screw it!...It's not worth it anymore! Edited July 18, 2018 by Mad75 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdaddy Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 3 hours ago, GREENBLUE said: Think you proved my point. “Gaines is the reason that Cavies were good from 99-11.” Gaines is that good, he’s next level good. Cavies also had people like Bruno, Jeff, Saucedo and Casella on staff at that time. Not saying that Koter had no hand in the successes, but it was apparent that the trends in the activity were changing and the Cavies were not. Move to 2016...new design staff, new look, better results. And you proved my point - if success was only the result of everyone but the program coordinator, then why blame the coordinator when things go south (as apparently he had no effect on the outcome). Ultimately, I think vferrera's point is appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjoakes Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 I try to appreciate what it must mean to be a Madison alumnus. (I am not one.) And I am sure many Madison alumni feel the pain of the Scouts dropping into lower tiers multiple times more than I do. But FWIW, corps these days have a broader group of stakeholders than just alumni. Particularly with revenue generation. Recognizing that doesn't have to diminish the importance of the alumni group. It is at least reasonable that part of the mix of building back up again is utilizing some people and resources not previously connected with Madison. We have any number of experiences with firms, colleges, and other organizations brought down due in part because of an over-reliance on those considered long-time insiders. There are people out there who can credibly put Madison's brand and interests out front even if they are not Madison alumni. A few of them might be instrumental in sorting out the current state of affairs, looking at a big picture, and the various personalities and relationships, with a different, helpful perspective. I mean this generally. As a response to some tilt in the discussion here that seems to suggest whatever problems the Scouts now have are only in the hands of alumni to resolve. Got no people in mind and wouldn't know any of the right people if you backed me to a wall and forced me to listen to all the singers from the 2017 shows. Outsiders are not inherently bad brand masters and visionaries; insiders are not inherently good ones. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 9 hours ago, BRASSO said: Its really regrettable to see Madison Scouts Alums so down on their Corps and so publically like this. Some Alums are even publically dropping support for their Corps, and moving their support and donations to other competing Corps. Publically expressing this abandonment too. So the Show Design for 2018 might not be up to Alums expectations. Or Placements not up to Alums expectations. So this is the reason to lash out publically like this ? Whatever happened to taking things in house ?... privately... to fix placements/ show designs ? If Madison Scouts Alums think that publically lashing out like this... or publically announcing they are abandoning ship in their support, is anything but counterproductive to improving things there, then I fail to see how such public hostility/ abandonment serves any useful purpose at all in attempts to future improve things . But... thats of course, not my call, as I have no skin in the game, like the Madison Scouts Alums do. I just wish most Madison Scouts Alums would ponder and reflect a bit more, and reevaluate if going so publically hostile like this with mgt, Staff is the right way to go about this.. and during the summer no less when their kids are still out there performing and competing... instead of quietly, methodically, and privately coming together there to figure out the best way to implement the changes needed to improve things there. so just like the Cadets of recent years when prominent alumni were on the board elsewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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