Madison Scouts 2018

[Tim K]

21 minutes ago, Slingerland said:

Totally agree with this. They had a great run as the Scouts, but times and circumstances changed that made the all-male thing more of a burden than a feature for them. Since there are other approaches to programming they can take with a different membership base, so go ahead and evolve into something genuinely new rather than trying to sneak it past themselves. 

Madison is facing challenges, but based on the posts, what is happening on the field is the least of the corps’ problems, followed by whether Madison should go coed. The problems are internal with lots of fires all over the place, or so it seems.

Madison has history. Let’s look at history. Boston Crusaders are perhaps at their strongest ever, though some might argue that was in the mid-1960’s. Logic would have said in 1982-83, the corps should fold. North Star folded, Bridgemen were in decline. 27th was facing challenges but still had some strong folks. Logic said Boston had it’s run, it did what it could, let’s call it a day. 27th at least would allow them the opportunity to match in finals and Garfield is not that far away. Now I know the thought of BAC handing things over to Cadets and 27th is ridiculous, but no more than casting off Madison to history. Today, BAC is the best example of bringing all sorts of folks together to save a corps and create a vision.

Cadets: do you really think Madison has problems equal to a corps that had a former megalomaniac director with multiple allegations of sexual misconduct who left the corps in tatters? They are fielding a corps when logic says they should have folded and again is an example of disparate folks coming together.

Madison folks have to get behind the kids which means cheering them on the field and being careful what is said on DCP. I’m sure I will miss what I love about Madison when I see them compete. I know I will miss the classic Madison sound and look, and if I were an alum, I’d really miss it, but the kids need to be supported.  

[HockeyDad]

 Criticizing the administration does not equal criticizing "the kids". One can cheer for and support the kids while being critical of the management. The kids are smart enough to understand the difference. Perhaps smarter than the adults. 

Edited June 25, 2018 by HockeyDad

[GUARDLING]

8 minutes ago, HockeyDad said:

 Criticizing the administration does not equal criticizing "the kids". One can cheer for and support the kids while being critical of the management. The kids are smart enough to understand the difference. Perhaps smarter than the adults. 

From someone who teaches many of these kids and although I do not mind criticizing any part of this. members DO equate their staff and management to themselves as one ( as it should be )It isn't about them being smart or not it's about loyalty and buying into what those around them tell them.

[Tim K]

13 minutes ago, HockeyDad said:

 Criticizing the administration does not equal criticizing "the kids". One can cheer for and support the kids while being critical of the management. The kids are smart enough to understand the difference. Perhaps smarter than the adults. 

I agree, but a lot of the Madison posts I am reading in this thread and others that critique the show may be aimed at corps administration, but come across as critical of the kids too. I could give examples, but I would be doing exactly what I’m criticizing.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Tim K

[GUARDLING]

46 minutes ago, Tim K said:

Madison is facing challenges, but based on the posts, what is happening on the field is the least of the corps’ problems, followed by whether Madison should go coed. The problems are internal with lots of fires all over the place, or so it seems.

Madison has history. Let’s look at history. Boston Crusaders are perhaps at their strongest ever, though some might argue that was in the mid-1960’s. Logic would have said in 1982-83, the corps should fold. North Star folded, Bridgemen were in decline. 27th was facing challenges but still had some strong folks. Logic said Boston had it’s run, it did what it could, let’s call it a day. 27th at least would allow them the opportunity to match in finals and Garfield is not that far away. Now I know the thought of BAC handing things over to Cadets and 27th is ridiculous, but no more than casting off Madison to history. Today, BAC is the best example of bringing all sorts of folks together to save a corps and create a vision.

Cadets: do you really think Madison has problems equal to a corps that had a former megalomaniac director with multiple allegations of sexual misconduct who left the corps in tatters? They are fielding a corps when logic says they should have folded and again is an example of disparate folks coming together.

Madison folks have to get behind the kids which means cheering them on the field and being careful what is said on DCP. I’m sure I will miss what I love about Madison when I see them compete. I know I will miss the classic Madison sound and look, and if I were an alum, I’d really miss it, but the kids need to be supported.  

2

Some of the corps you mention here did not always have that support, at least in the sense that was needed. There have been corps members who would flee after a year or so to move on and a lot had to do with management as well as alumni involvement to the point of interference. It's been well known through the activity for decades. ( No I'm not saying who ) 

With that said corps can pull themselves out ( or fall back ) just takes guts and prioritizing what's best for them and not what some might think is needed.

[mjoakes]

Interesting perspectives here. I lack first-hand knowledge of the historical problems.

But Madison has a decent show to build on, though it's pretty generic. The costumes are fine out on the field (even if there's no Madison "look" about them). And we have a whole week before we escape June. Much awaits.

Edited June 25, 2018 by mjoakes

[Cappybara]

Another year, and more of the same pointless arguments over whether someone is criticizing the kids or the administration. 

Smh

[Tim K]

8 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:

Some of the corps you mention here did not always have that support, at least in the sense that was needed. There have been corps members who would flee after a year or so to move on and a lot had to do with management as well as alumni involvement to the point of interference. It's been well known through the activity for decades. ( No I'm not saying who ) 

With that said corps can pull themselves out ( or fall back ) just takes guts and prioritizing what's best for them and not what some might think is needed.

Of the two I mentioned, I am more familiar with Boston Crusaders and I know they did not have the support, alumni or financial, for many years, even when they were the last WC corps standing in the Greater Boston area. Actively recruiting from outside of New England made more than a few alums upset, even though this was a common practice. Show concepts stuck in people’s craw too. What did happen, I would say maybe ten years ago, maybe a bit longer, you started seeing important public relations changes. For years BAC hosted shows were no different than other shows which was fine, but soon alums were being noticed in a different way, new people at shows were welcomed, and old rivalries were acknowledged but it had a “we’re all one drum corps community” feel to it. Fundraising appeals seemed more like we’re all working on one goal. At some shows you’d have marching members in uniform thanking people for attending shows. For me personally, I wanted to see Boston Crusaders succeed because it meant drum corps shows in the Boston area and I always liked the corps. I rooted for them because in Boston, you root for the home team. Now I want to see them succeed because they are the Boston Crusaders.

Can Madison do the same thing? I never marched with BAC nor have I been an instructor, but I know lots of the folks who have been part of the organization over the years, and I know them from outside of drum corps, which gives me a very different perspective about these great, but very diverse people. Left to their own devises, getting these folks together may best described at best, when the Red Sox defeat the Yankees, at worst it can be like a brawl on the field at Fenway when the Sox are playing the Yankees, and having it spread to the stands. Lots of polar opposites. You won’t have too many folks from 1965 yelling “Bring back Animal Farm” even though they cheered for it,  but they will not be dismissed as dinosaurs by those who marched in 2014. Alums appreciate the tradition and want it to continue. Yes there are kinks, and there will be lots of love next week in Lawrence but at Beanpot the following night you will hear critiques of BAC, some legit, others by cranks. BAC is not drum corps utopia. Still, Madison can take a few ideas from the BAC playbook and apply them.

 

[GUARDLING]

39 minutes ago, Tim K said:

Of the two I mentioned, I am more familiar with Boston Crusaders and I know they did not have the support, alumni or financial, for many years, even when they were the last WC corps standing in the Greater Boston area. Actively recruiting from outside of New England made more than a few alums upset, even though this was a common practice. Show concepts stuck in people’s craw too. What did happen, I would say maybe ten years ago, maybe a bit longer, you started seeing important public relations changes. For years BAC hosted shows were no different than other shows which was fine, but soon alums were being noticed in a different way, new people at shows were welcomed, and old rivalries were acknowledged but it had a “we’re all one drum corps community” feel to it. Fundraising appeals seemed more like we’re all working on one goal. At some shows you’d have marching members in uniform thanking people for attending shows. For me personally, I wanted to see Boston Crusaders succeed because it meant drum corps shows in the Boston area and I always liked the corps. I rooted for them because in Boston, you root for the home team. Now I want to see them succeed because they are the Boston Crusaders.

Can Madison do the same thing? I never marched with BAC nor have I been an instructor, but I know lots of the folks who have been part of the organization over the years, and I know them from outside of drum corps, which gives me a very different perspective about these great, but very diverse people. Left to their own devises, getting these folks together may best described at best, when the Red Sox defeat the Yankees, at worst it can be like a brawl on the field at Fenway when the Sox are playing the Yankees, and having it spread to the stands. Lots of polar opposites. You won’t have too many folks from 1965 yelling “Bring back Animal Farm” even though they cheered for it,  but they will not be dismissed as dinosaurs by those who marched in 2014. Alums appreciate the tradition and want it to continue. Yes there are kinks, and there will be lots of love next week in Lawrence but at Beanpot the following night you will hear critiques of BAC, some legit, others by cranks. BAC is not drum corps utopia. Still, Madison can take a few ideas from the BAC playbook and apply them.

 

5

All corps are different Madison needs to do whats best for them. Perspectives from the outside can be very different on the inside, support for any corps can also be very subjective. I have seen many times where so-called tough love from some actually does not one bit of good. The arrogance of some can also be damaging in the name of support. Alumni is very important but can also damage. Like it or not these are not opinions but fact. Some corps have even driven away directors, staff on a regular basis as well as members. Some continue to do this some MIGHT have finally got it.

With all that said, each corps is unique and of course sometimes people do need to step in. The hard part is figuring out how this happens to the BENEFIT OF THE CORPS

Edited June 25, 2018 by GUARDLING

[tedrick]

OK - caught the show on YT - Overall, first impressions I like it! Music good, drill good, drumming good, soloists good

I would encourage the horn staff to let the soloist add more to the solos -- the don't quite flow as nicely as I think she could probably play them if she loosened up a bit -- sounds a bit stiff for flugel work - we're comparing to the past couple fantastic flugel solos from BD and Bloo -- she has the chops to play similarly -- she just needs to jazz up the solos a bit more -- 

 

Over all, I was expecting to hate it but I like it! 100% better than last year's show -- 

 

after getting the WGI costume out of our systems, I think we can go back to the superman suites --