What will be the trends for 2018?

[Cappybara]

19 hours ago, BRASSO said:

  Beats me.You are asking the wrong person. I just said, attire ( hats or no hats ) is meaningless to scores and placements. BD went out with the most traditional Cadet styled shako with the most traditional white plume in all of DCI. SCV went hatless. The fact that the Blue Devils stayed traditional in plummage, and SCV went hatless was essentially non factors in either Corps scores and placements. We could go right down the line and say this with every Corps, including every one of them in Open Class and in Soundsport too. A corps attire and what you wear or don't wear on your head is irrelevant to where you finish in competition. Only Guard attire might have the ever so slight impact on a score or placement, but even here its mostly inconsequential at best, imo.

Why do you think uniform changes happen in a show? It's to (in theory) generate effect. It's to supplement the concept that the corps is trying to clearly present to the judges and audience. Attire matters, but only in the context of an individual performance. I highly doubt judges compare attire across corps, only within the concept of a show itself 

[GUARDLING]

12 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

Why do you think uniform changes happen in a show? It's to (in theory) generate effect. It's to supplement the concept that the corps is trying to clearly present to the judges and audience. Attire matters, but only in the context of an individual performance. I highly doubt judges compare attire across corps, only within the concept of a show itself 

no place for logic here..lol

I'll repeat just to be clear...."IF a corps chooses to make uniforms a part of the overall picture and part of design it opens up to critique. If they dont, that's different. Pretty simple and basic design prep when formulating what a corps is trying to present. 

Edited August 14, 2017 by GUARDLING

[Cappybara]

15 hours ago, BRASSO said:

 Its been my experience for a long time that you are wrong too.... staffs every year in  every World Class, Open Class,( Soundsport now) make decisions on attire and headgear, There is no universal agreement at all among the various staffs that their attire and head gear choices will make a difference in their scores and placements either. Some mistakenly think so. Others staffers more realistic with this. But the bottom line is that there is no connection whatsoever between attire and headgear and scores and placements in DCI World and Open Class. How can we say this with any level of certainty ? We can say this because these Corps in World Class and Open Class all wear different styles of attire and headgear. ( I'm just assuming here now that folks know what Gold wore onto the field in attire/.headgear this season, and Oregon Crusaders, Impulse,, Carolina Crown, Madison,  Jersey Surf, Blue Devils, Heat Wave, Spartans etc).  There is no connection whatsoever between these vastly different attire and headgear choices and these Corps scores and placements. Most Corps in DCI change their attire and headgear a lot. Their attire and headgear choices however never move the dial for them score wise or placement wise no matter what anybody tries to tell us otherwise. The proof is in their scores and the placements, and the disparate attire and headgear ( or no headgear ) worn into performance competition. Its irrelevant. So few Corps move up in placement year in and year out, So we KNOW their frequent attire changes, headgear choices have had little to no effect on their scores and placements.

 

Lots of corps put out shows better than they put out in the year prior, and yet often they stay in the same spot. Why? Because improvements don't happen in a vacuum. Just because a corps doesn't move up in placement after implementing a show concept that effectively uses a certain attire doesn't mean it doesn't impact scores at all. 

[GUARDLING]

5 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

Lots of corps put out shows better than they put out in the year prior, and yet often they stay in the same spot. Why? Because improvements don't happen in a vacuum. Just because a corps doesn't move up in placement after implementing a show concept that effectively uses a certain attire doesn't mean it doesn't impact scores at all. 

Moving up is not always about getting better it's also very much about is someone else slipping. I'm out of this though. Let others debate it.  I have taught many clinics often very much about this subject

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by GUARDLING

[BRASSO]

40 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

 Just because a corps doesn't move up in placement after implementing a show concept that effectively uses a certain attire doesn't mean it doesn't impact scores at all. 

 Of course, no question. It also does not mean that attire/ headgear impact scores and placements either. For the last 40 years ( this season included as well) there is no evidence whatsoever that attire/ headgear had any influence on these Corps ultimate placements or scores. Quite the contrary, as a matter of fact. There is a mountain of evidence that suggests that headgear/ attire is wholly irrelevant to most all these World Class, Open Class ( and now Soundsport ) scores and placements. As correctly mentioned by others on this thread, the scores and placements are driven by Show Design, Instructional Quality, Marcher Talent, Performer execution levels. Not what duds they have on, nor what they put on their scalp ( or not put on their scalp). Thats a silly urban myth, imo ( pushed by the Costume Mfg, and its hired shills, perhaps ? ). But in any event,  its wholly unsupported by any historical data whatsoever.

Edited August 14, 2017 by BRASSO

[craiga]

19 hours ago, jwillis35 said:

I think I did say in that post that the uniform or costume is certainly important, I just elaborated on the fact that talent, design, teaching, admin and all that is more important. I get what you're saying too. I thought Boston's uniforms were critical to their show. Are they going to stay with that design or will they be more like Crown and do variations on it each year?

Speaking as someone who spent a week in the BAC uniform room back in Vermont assisting those folks, I thought I would answer a few of these questions.  (With the caveat that the design team could always change their minds...,lol)

1. Boston's shakos are in fact authentic, old school shakos.  Supplied by Band Shoppe, the name brand is Shakomaster, and they are intended for use in multiple years.  The earth-toned band and "Puritan Buckle" are easily removed and can be replaced with something different in a future year.

2. The other re-usable element are the gray vests, which interestingly resemble the look and feel of leather up close, but they are not.  The "drop sashes" are attached to a button inside the vest, and of course can also be changed out ( the ruffle as well). 

3. The shirts and bib pants are very show specific and I would assume they will be changed in the future.

Also, I want to give a shout out to Band Shoppe.  This whole uniform package (inc the guard stuff) was all custom made and the members loved how cool they were in hot weather(at least compared with older unis)....also, on some of the pieces, the tag inside actually has printed on it "BAC 2017", which is really cool since I believe the corps members are allowed to retain some of those pieces.

As for headwear in general, as I mentioned on another thread, to me it is not a matter of tradition so much as uniformity. As a visual guy, I like the most possible uniform look on the field.  I can't get out of my mind the hatless Blue Knights, whose tuba section began the show down front and  back to....a blond guy, a dark hair guy, a curly haired guy, a guy/girl with a bit longer hair....etc.  And, just like our friends from Allentown, I just think many of their forms would have looked more precise with some version of a head wear.  The Cadets actually could have benefited from Bishop's hats (the shorter ones) if they felt the shakos wouldn't work. 

I get the WGI/emoting concept....but that doesn't work for the judges at any of the regionals or Indy, other than field judges who presumably are not judging GE in any case.

 

[drumcorpsfever]

Theme trending

A return to a show with a story to it.  In 2014, the Bluecoats brought us "Tilt".  Tilt was a musical and visual playground with a show "theme" quite different than anything before (sort of like the old Seinfeld Show reference "A Show About Nothing". From Tilt we would get shows such as the 2015 Cadets with "The Power of X", Bluecoats 2015 "Kinetic Noise", Bluecoats 2016 "Downside Up". This year gave us the Bluecoats "Jagged Line", and the Crossmen's "Enigma" - just to name a few.

Blue Devils' Metamorph was a story of sorts - about the history and evolution of the Concord Blue Devils.  BD's show was certainly not devoid of a theme. For some of us, BD poked at our heart strings with nostalgia, while others simply enjoyed it for what it was. Simply entertaining. No matter the viewer, everyone could appreciate what they gave us.  Easy to follow and entertain.

SCV, on the other hand were the cirque du soleil kids of drum corps. One visual after another, performed so flawlessly.  This show was more conceptual in nature, though one could certainly understand the Ouroboros theme of it - if a theme was needed.

My hunch is we'll see a renewal of interest in shows with a storyline to them. The key will be to combine a story with visual and musical tapestry to them.  I think we will be moving beyond a "Show About Nothing" and more toward shows that have thematic depth to them.  Tough to do in an 11.5 minute presentation. But the corps that can do this will be the most successful on the show circuit for the next few years to come. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by drumcorpsfever

[Spandy]

3 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 Of course, no question. It also does not mean that attire/ headgear impact scores and placements either. For the last 40 years ( this season included as well) there is no evidence whatsoever that attire/ headgear had any influence on these Corps ultimate placements or scores. Quite the contrary, as a matter of fact. There is a mountain of evidence that suggests that headgear/ attire is wholly irrelevant to most all these World Class, Open Class ( and now Soundsport ) scores and placements.

Correlation does not imply causality of course, but I just want to point out that almost every first place corps in the past decade+ has had some sort of show-specific element to their uniform

Cadets 2005: Normal on the front, opposite colors on the back, to give the sense of things being askew in "The Zone"
Phantom Regiment 2008: Roman-style baldrics on the already military-inspired uniform, to invoke soldiers of the empire
Cadets 2011: Half as white angels, half as maroon demons
Blue Devils 2012: Began in abstract, brightly colored compression shirts, no hats. Added jackets and shakos in a random order during the show.
Crown 2013: Brand new uniforms with a bright orange stripe to emphasize their favorite lower body movements, designed to be changed out for a new color scheme every year
Blue Devils 2014: New jackets with customizable sleeves and drop sashes, and new shakos with an camera-lens emblem
Blue Devils 2015: Changed sleeves and drop sashes to resemble running ink
Bluecoats 2016: All-white, form fitting on arms and legs to show off their choreography-heavy progarm inspired by a modern dance troupe
Blue Devils 2017: Started in a more traditional uniform/shako, but removed them during the show to symbolize metamorphosis, changing from old to new

[BRASSO]

38 minutes ago, Spandy said:

Correlation does not imply causality of course, but I just want to point out that almost every first place corps in the past decade+ has had some sort of show-specific element to their uniform

 

 Every Corps that has won in the DCI Themed era has also had superior Show Designs, Superior instructional staffs, superior marcher talent, and superior performer execution levels than all the other Corps that had new uniforms that season. They topped all of the frequent uniform changers from below too.

 Would the Cadets have finished any lower this season if they wore their iconic Cadet styled uniforms / shakos/ plumes ?  I don't believe so. The 2017 Cadets not only changed their 80 year uniforms once again for this season, they made FOUR costume/ uniform changes in every performance they performed in this season. You can't change attire/headgear more quickly and frequently than that. It did virtually nothing for them score wise/ placement wise. Nor should it have been expected to. The show design/  inexperienced marcher talent./ instructional quality of the Cadets made whatever duds and hats, or non hats the Cadets decided on for 2017 a fait accompli. Cadets have won DCI Titles in their 80 year Cadet styled attire/ shako, and finished out of the Top 25 in them too, In neither years, did the attire/ shako have anything at all to do with 1st place, or 25th place in those years.

Edited August 14, 2017 by BRASSO

[jjeffeory]

17 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

Ok .I will respectfully disagree. Youre leaving out the part when I said that if a corps chooses to make a uniform change to reflect a theme it will certainly make a difference. Color choices or equipment ( for guard ) also always plays a part

Quick story ( sorry..lol ) wayyyyyy back in 1991 I was walking onto the field with the corps I taught. The chief judge greeted me , said hello and said WOW! if I could give you a perfect score tonight on those uniforms I would. You can bet you will hear the comments on your tapes..And I did. It was a very controversial choice in style and color I chose for the corps I taught and worked right from the 1st show.. even then it mattered if we were trying to make some kind of a statement.

AS I said "if " a corps chooses to not make costuming a part of the production, especially for the corps proper is one thing, if they do quite another.

Anyway thanks for the response

Gosh, I loved the Freelancers  guard uniforms from that year! I can see what you mean.  Of course it always made sense to me from a guard perspective because they had been changing their uniforms every year at the point in time in DCI's history.  Now it seems like it is starting to matter with the horns/drums uniforms, which have started to universally change almost as frequently as the guard.