Flowmarching - take a look at your credit cards

[Stu]

18 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

The government gives them next to nothing.

And the government gets its money through compulsory means of confiscating resources from the income of others; called taxation.

[jwillis35]

9 hours ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

If it's any of your ###### business, my family wouldn't have been able to afford to watch it if it had cost anything.  You honestly think people would have subscribed to a premium satellite feed to watch drum corps in the 70s, 80s and 90s?  Believe it or not, not everyone in drum corps back then was born with a silver spoon in their mouth.  Kind of like the thousands of families today who have a kid who would give an arm and a leg to march, but can't afford $4,000.00 a summer.  I saved up for 6 years to pay for my tour fee, which was only a quarter of that.  If the broadcast had NOT been free, then I, along with thousands upon thousands of other fans and members, would have never even been exposed to the activity.  In a time where the majority of band directors in North America were openly hostile towards drum corps, those FREE broadcasts were the absolute best recruiting tool available to DCI.  

Seriously, this is too much whining for me. Whatever your family situation was is your business. The point made was not to offend you (I don't believe) but to say that PBS is really not free. Many of us did donate, for years in fact. That made it possible for you to watch for free. I am glad you were able to watch and develop an interest, and ultimately march.

The $4,000 you are appalled by is what it costs to march with some organizations in 2017. What should the cost be? Nothing. $300, $600, $1200?  Why do you think many of the corps from your era have died? Poor management, poor finance, not keeping up with the times, and people wanting a lot for nothing. 

Drum & Bugle Corps is a niche market. Always has been. It's not a commodity that everyone has to have, it's not a utility like electricity, and it's not something that has to be given away for free.  Some people will be exposed to its' awesomeness and some will not. Such is life.

If drum corps, and DCI specifically, was in the "we are here to help poor children who need something to do" business then they would most likely be working with our government at the local, state, and federal levels. They would be given a budget that would likely come from our nation's tax dollars and they would also exist on donations from fans.  Still not free. The people of the country would collectively be paying for it along with those who donate. There is a similar service these days...it's called public education (paid for by the public) which in most cases provides opportunities for music education in band, choir, orchestra, and other ensembles. In the case of high school bands, band parents often raise tens of thousands of dollars extra (or more) by operating fundraisers in the local community. In other words, some in the local community are kicking in even more dollars to help local youth get an education and performance experience. Still not free. 

Edited August 15, 2017 by jwillis35

[garfield]

7 hours ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

Yeah I generally stop reading after that word.  Normally tends to be a waste.

Wow, ignore the correction from a longer-term member who, by all accounts, was there watching the programming on PBS.  Were you? (Your next post makes it clear that you were.)

ACTUALLY there, not just blogging about it.  Still,

Respect is best earned by giving it.

 

Edited August 15, 2017 by garfield

[garfield]

7 hours ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

If it's any of your ###### business, my family wouldn't have been able to afford to watch it if it had cost anything.  You honestly think people would have subscribed to a premium satellite feed to watch drum corps in the 70s, 80s and 90s?  Believe it or not, not everyone in drum corps back then was born with a silver spoon in their mouth.  Kind of like the thousands of families today who have a kid who would give an arm and a leg to march, but can't afford $4,000.00 a summer.  I saved up for 6 years to pay for my tour fee, which was only a quarter of that.  If the broadcast had NOT been free, then I, along with thousands upon thousands of other fans and members, would have never even been exposed to the activity.  In a time where the majority of band directors in North America were openly hostile towards drum corps, those FREE broadcasts were the absolute best recruiting tool available to DCI.  Now, it's all gated behind a paywall, or otherwise limited to social media and pirated clips on YouTube.  So don't you sit there and try to judge me because I lament the fact that the average american has to sign up for an unreliable and poorly-engineered premium service in order to even be exposed to drum corps today.  That kind of elitist attitude right there is why the activity has become so inaccessible to everyone that isn't living vicariously through their kids in band or has been a fan for 30 to 40 years (a demographic that is shrinking every single day).

If DCI has to nickel and dime the fans and, more importantly, its members just to operate, then maybe it needs to cut its operating costs.  And I can supply a pretty comprehensive list of where they can start.....

Wow, obviously some issues here to resolve.  Old ones, it appears, that go well beyond drum corps.  Your anger is obvious, but you should pull in your claws and engage here instead of yelling and telling others not to judge.  The only thing that's here for us to judge ARE your words, so lighten up, Nelly.

Now, to your points, it's interesting that I don't disagree with everything you believe, but your seeming biggest issue is the "elitist" attitude that DCI has because it grovels and grubs for money.  In a remarkable way you have it correct, but your target is misguided, IMO.  DCI is doing exactly what it was created to do - make money for the membership of the association.  They're job may entail some portion of good will towards the less fortunate who can't participate, but it's primary function is to maximize the income it can create through gate receipts and event management (including the logistics of organizing the tour) through TEP's.  That's it.  They are NOT mandated by mission or vision to be a charitable organization by providing free opportunities to all interested kids.

The CORPS themselves are charged with that role, if they so choose to provide a function for free.  Some do.

I believe many of the designers of DCI shows are "elitist" in their viewpoints, and that some directors join them there.

But DCI charging for access, for tickets, for views, and for events are all perfectly aligned with their role according to their charter. 

 

Edited August 15, 2017 by garfield

[Kyle B]

I guess a lot of people will be watching DCA's for the first time!  In all honesty, many of you should as I do believe most people would be thoroughly surprised by the value.

[SFZFAN]

I talked to them on the phone and was promised a callback from a supervisor. I did not get one. I have disputed the charge through my bank and they will not be getting my money in the long run. 

[NakedEye]

I don't get the pining for the PBS broadcast. Yes it was great AT THE TIME and a fun thing to look forward to, but that was the kicker. If you missed it or had forgotten to set your VCR (yes, VCR), you were outta luck. No viewable drum corps for the next year for you unless they did a rare rebroadcast. Better wear out the old tapes.

The live broadcast wasn't even an every year thing. Lots of times they just showed a highlight reel a few weeks later. 

Contrast that with the tons of full shows and clips on Youtube 24/7, TONS. Yes, they may be bootleg, and may get taken down at times, but then they show up again, posted by another enterprising individual. This year, my feed was bombarded with full shows, some ripped from streaming, others from audience perspective, for virtually all seasons in the past few decades. If a particular full show wasn't there, most likely you could find a partial clip. Its an open floodgate that even the most diligent copyright police can't fully control.

I think it's more accessible than ever, and that's one of the reasons why audition numbers and interest with HS kids is way, way up. 

[jwillis35]

1 hour ago, NakedEye said:

I don't get the pining for the PBS broadcast. Yes it was great AT THE TIME and a fun thing to look forward to, but that was the kicker. If you missed it or had forgotten to set your VCR (yes, VCR), you were outta luck. No viewable drum corps for the next year for you unless they did a rare rebroadcast. Better wear out the old tapes.

The live broadcast wasn't even an every year thing. Lots of times they just showed a highlight reel a few weeks later. 

Contrast that with the tons of full shows and clips on Youtube 24/7, TONS. Yes, they may be bootleg, and may get taken down at times, but then they show up again, posted by another enterprising individual. This year, my feed was bombarded with full shows, some ripped from streaming, others from audience perspective, for virtually all seasons in the past few decades. If a particular full show wasn't there, most likely you could find a partial clip. Its an open floodgate that even the most diligent copyright police can't fully control.

I think it's more accessible than ever, and that's one of the reasons why audition numbers and interest with HS kids is way, way up. 

I think some would just like a little of both worlds. Perhaps Finals only on PBS, but we still have FloMarching (or whatever DCI uses) for the regular season, quarters, and semis; and we still have YouTube, Facebook, etc. for some quick enjoyment. PBS's broadcasting capabilities are first rate. They can produce a super high quality broadcast (with the help of Tom Blair and others) that would be worth -- but it would cost money no doubt, and PBS would want to know the financial end is covered. 

[Lead]

15 hours ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

I'm trying to remember what I had to do when PBS charged me to watch drum corps after I cancelled my subscription.

Oh, wait, it's all coming back to me now.  They didn't charge me a dime, because it didn't cost anything.

Freeload then, complain now.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Lead

[Lead]

9 hours ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

woof woof woof woof (a demographic that is shrinking every single day).

 

Actually, seven years of increased attendance pretty much across the board, but keep the garbage coming.

 

But hey, we needed a new "that guy." Welcome in.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Lead