How important is the competitive aspect of Drum Corps?

[Ediker]

8 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

should it be the over riding emphasis? No

It should not be the overriding emphasis, at least not at all levels.  Some corps are predominantly beginners, learning the basics of playing, twirling, marching, and performing.  At the elite level, it's more appropriate to emphasize the competitive aspects.  Judging and scoring are imperfect, so it's best not to put inordinate stock in the results.  The scores, however, do provide some indication of achievement level.  

[BRASSO]

13 minutes ago, Tone Quality Matters said:

I had no motive when asking the question.  I was seriously interested to read anyones position on the competitiveness of the activity with each corps culture having different approaches. There wasn't anything nefarious with my intent.  

My personal view is that I certainly understand the need to fully develop a given show to it's fullest potential and that the learning experience is paramount, but I do believe that competition and having a competitive edge can be lost at times.  It is a competitive sport.

 

 I would tend to agree. The Blue Devils Organization has it figured out about as good as anyone, imo. 3 Drum Corps. All highly competitive,, and educational in a very balanced, extraordinarily efficient manner... for decades.

Edited August 16, 2017 by BRASSO

[Stu]

8 minutes ago, Ediker said:

Thank you.  That was very helpful

You are quite welcome. By the way you used the word Gist earlier. It made me smile because I am a Jazzer, and found out a number of years ago that Gist and Jazz are likely both derived from the same word Jasm which means 'Spirit'. Just thought I would share the spirit, or gist, of that too!

[BRASSO]

27 minutes ago, C.Holland said:

I've seen corps that posted scores on their food truck dry erase boards have issues internally.  fingers pointed when its not a number they wanted.  I worked for a group where one of the caption heads used to tell the kids to "make something two points better".  those kids eventually started to blame each other when the scores didn't go up like they were hoping, never knowing they were given a turd of a show that even if it was perfect, wasn't going to compete on the same level as the rest.

While the corps i've either marched in, or taught, seemed to have much better summers (even winning a division) when scores weren't discussed with the kids or emphasized as more important than the journey.  the kids were simply expected to handle performing at their highest level every rep, and the staff need to coach/clean or rewrite to help improve the show and manage the numbers. 

 " Competition " however did not seem to be the fundamental contrasting issue here though. Bad Instruction/ good instruction seemed to be more the issue from what you are describing here.

[Ediker]

18 minutes ago, Tone Quality Matters said:

My personal view is that I certainly understand the need to fully develop a given show to it's fullest potential and that the learning experience is paramount, but I do believe that competition and having a competitive edge can be lost at times.  It is a competitive sport.

I think the learning experience and artistry are likely of the highest importance.  The scores and competitions, at the very least, provide some kind of compass or anchor.  The critique is probably the most valuable aspect in the activity.  It helps quality levels remain high and encourages the activity in directions that the powers-that-be deem appropriate.  

[garfield]

10 hours ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

Competition is fine, so long as it is balanced with education.  Today, education has been tossed out the window in favor of what cannot even be described as competition, but rather as an arms race to see who can blow the biggest budgets and do the most ludicrous crap on the field.

I think you'd find it very difficult to find a marching member who would agree with you.

In fact, I think you'd have a hard time finding agreement among staff, volunteers, and most fans.

Edited August 16, 2017 by garfield

[MikeD]

7 hours ago, C.Holland said:

I've seen corps that posted scores on their food truck dry erase boards have issues internally.  fingers pointed when its not a number they wanted.  I worked for a group where one of the caption heads used to tell the kids to "make something two points better".  those kids eventually started to blame each other when the scores didn't go up like they were hoping, never knowing they were given a turd of a show that even if it was perfect, wasn't going to compete on the same level as the rest.

While the corps i've either marched in, or taught, seemed to have much better summers (even winning a division) when scores weren't discussed with the kids or emphasized as more important than the journey.  the kids were simply expected to handle performing at their highest level every rep, and the staff need to coach/clean or rewrite to help improve the show and manage the numbers. 

Agree 1000%. I ,have seen it all too often...referring to scores or points by a staff member can lead to a lot of problems. The staff and members have zero control over those elements. All they control is their performance. I always tell my kids this at least once a season...

"There are three things that determine your score/placement:

1) How well you perform

2) How well the other groups perform

3) What the judges think

You only control number 1)."

 

 

[c mor]

1 hour ago, MikeD said:

... "There are three things that determine your score/placement:

1) How well you perform

2) How well the other groups perform

3) What the judges think

You only control number 1)."

Hope you don't mind if I use this...

[Fran Haring]

As a fan... as long as I enjoy a given corps' show, I don't really care any more what the score is.  My life goes on, one way or another.  LOL.

As a corps... like Jeff said, it would be nice to know what's going on, but also with the emphasis that it's the performance, and the work to improve that performance (as an individual and as a corps overall), that matters much more than a score or placement.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Fran Haring

[Tone Quality Matters]

1 hour ago, MikeD said:

Agree 1000%. I ,have seen it all too often...referring to scores or points by a staff member can lead to a lot of problems. The staff and members have zero control over those elements. All they control is their performance. I always tell my kids this at least once a season...

"There are three things that determine your score/placement:

1) How well you perform

2) How well the other groups perform

3) What the judges think

You only control number 1)."

 

 

These three points are very important in life and have applied for me as a businessman.  Only the third point would apply to management in a sense.  Great points MikeD.

A follow up question to all.  Do staff have the responsibility to discuss or teach the competitive aspects of the activity, actually touch on it and talk about it with members or allow for a natural understanding by the members themselves?

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Tone Quality Matters