ouooga Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 13 hours ago, Ediker said: Scores? Yes. Why not? Would it make sense to have a football team and not discuss touchdowns? Do Football games show scores? Yes. Do Theater Performances show scores? No. Do jazz festivals show scores? Sometimes. Where does Drum Corps fit on that spectrum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said: You think I care if you're "disgusted" at any thing I say? You and this echo chamber of sycophants are part of the problem, and your input isn't as valuable to me as I think you probably would like it be. I don't care if you've been a supporter for 40 years....you bought in to the snake oil, and you sold out. And now, drum corps doesn't exist anymore. That's partly YOUR fault. Don't talk to me about being disgusted. You can't hold a candle to the disgust I feel towards those of you who actively allowed and praised the sweeping changes that have devolved this activity into the artistically bankrupt mess it is today. And whether you like it or not, I will fight tooth and nail to express my thoughts right alongside the CJ you folks have cultivated. No, I don't believe you care about anything other than hearing yourself think big thoughts through small fingers tapping on a keyboard. And thanks for naming me (and others here) as specifically part of "the" problem (when we all know that this is YOUR problem, not the activity's). It appears that you only live in "Bobby's World" which, I'll surmise, is a small, small place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Scores provide three important things: Marketing material (will the Blue Devils beat the Santa Clara Vanguard in a head to head competition? Find out tonight! Sunday Sunday Sunday!) Motivation (one more rep guys! You want the Crossmen to beat you again tonight?!) A winner (the reigning, defending champion Blue Devils!!) Take away scores, and the activity will need to be reframed. Not a bad thing at all, but how everything is marketed will need to stray from a competitive activity to more of a performance activity. We already teeter on that line, so it's not ridiculous to think. As far as quality goes, you'd lose motivation in some cases. Take the ring chasers out (assume there's a lot of folks in the top 6 who are at least somewhat motivated to march Corps X because Corps X might win) and disperse them instead at either their nearest corps or the one that puts on the shows they like the most. Overall quality in the (now called) Top 6 would decrease, but quality is just about everyone else would increase. Basically we'd have an entire playing field of corps with a (now called) 12th through 8th place quality. You decide if that's good or bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ediker Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 14 minutes ago, ouooga said: Do Football games show scores? Yes. Do Theater Performances show scores? No. Do jazz festivals show scores? Sometimes. Where does Drum Corps fit on that spectrum? I would put Drum Corps a step (or so) below football on the spectrum. While there is not play-by-play scoring, there is a detailed recap of the entire score provided at the end. I prefer drum corps as a sort of musical sport and hope it stays that way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby L. Collins Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Ediker said: I would put Drum Corps a step (or so) below football on the spectrum. While there is not play-by-play scoring, there is a detailed recap of the entire score provided at the end. I prefer drum corps as a sort of musical sport and hope it stays that way. It won't. It's already on the road to "theatrical sport", akin to college cheerleader competitions. But hey, at least those get shown on ESPN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Ediker said: I would put Drum Corps a step (or so) below football on the spectrum. While there is not play-by-play scoring, there is a detailed recap of the entire score provided at the end. I prefer drum corps as a sort of musical sport and hope it stays that way. It's tricky. I agree with you on the musical sport aspect. I'd also put something like Figure Skating or Floor Gymnastics on the list, closer to the sport side; competitive performance activities that include music, physical in nature, judged for score by individuals. That said, I can't think of a single other example on this spectrum where the music is actually performed by the athletes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Just now, Bobby L. Collins said: It won't. It's already on the road to "theatrical sport", akin to college cheerleader competitions. But hey, at least those get shown on ESPN. I assume you're taking that as a negative, but I actually agree with that example and think it's a positive for the future of the activity. Also I'm no expert on college cheerleading, but I feel confident there's "purists" of that arena that feel that activity has changed and mutated over the years too, and hate what it is now. A lot of parallels in your example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby L. Collins Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 1 minute ago, ouooga said: I assume you're taking that as a negative, but I actually agree with that example and think it's a positive for the future of the activity. Also I'm no expert on college cheerleading, but I feel confident there's "purists" of that arena that feel that activity has changed and mutated over the years too, and hate what it is now. A lot of parallels in your example. There certainly are. Like cheerleading, drum corps is moving towards recorded jock-jams piped into the stadium. The fruit's of WGI's labors are ripening... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Bobby L. Collins said: There certainly are. Like cheerleading, drum corps is moving towards recorded jock-jams piped into the stadium. The fruit's of WGI's labors are ripening... Meh. You're not wrong, but I don't see the problem outside of the aversion-to-evolution scope. Scenario: Imagine KFC's chicken sales plummet; people just stop eating chicken entirely. However, their Oreo Cake sales increase dramatically; everyone in the country has to eat at least two a day, they're that good. At the end of the year, KFC reports their best year ever in sales, highest net profit in company history, even though they didn't sell a single piece of chicken (their core product offering and even their namesake) and daily they sold out of Oreo Cakes. Would you consider that year a success or a failure for KFC? My answer, it's a success. It may not be what was envisioned, and there's a lot of people going to be screaming "what about the chicken?!" but if I was KFC, surviving and thriving would be the primary goals, with remaining traditional a secondary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmc5682 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) I think this is a stupid question. Without the competition aspect drum corps would die. When I marched we would be thrilled when we moved up a spot and beat Cavies 83, and upset when the reverse happened 84. Scores and placements are a huge motivator. I would not go to shows if they were all just exhibitions. I feel like this question is just another "#### BD won again so let's talk about how scores are really not relevant" so everyone gets to be a winner. Without competition there would be no need for innovation. I feel like next year is set up to be the most competitive ever with the rise of SCV and Crown, Bluecoats, Cavies and of course BD all with a chance to win. Who knows, BAC might even be in the top 3. Things seem to be moving in the right direction except for the use of electronics. I am not saying I am against them, but I do not think a corps should be able to play over a recording of themselves to make the brass seem fuller/louder. I loved a lot of shows this year, and attendance is better than ever. Attendance would plummet if there was no scoring. Edited August 16, 2017 by jmc5682 spelling 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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