Which Corps will be the recipient of the Ott ?

[wilme861]

17 hours ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

How about instead you find me a judge that magically cannot hear the overbearing noise coming out of the speakers (which are dialed up so loud they can hear them in the press boxes with the windows shut) AND the monitors facing the corps (which are loud enough to hear clearly in the stands on the back sideline).  They've got them turned up so loud that the judges (as well as the audience) can no longer discern the live from the amplified and/or enhanced.  And yes, that includes the judges ON the field.  People sitting in the front rows have figured that out already.  How many times this year did people post how put off they were hearing horns on the left side of the field when they were all dancing on the right side?  The whole thing is deceptive, it's disingenuous, and it's the exact opposite of everything Jim Ott worked to bring to drum corps.

Those audio engineers are there to play both the judges and the audience like a fiddle.  And they're doing that pretty darned well, when they're not forgetting to put batteries in their mic packs.  Eventually, enough critical failures will occur during performances that the brighter light bulbs in the community will start to figure it out.  But when that finally happens, I can guarantee the same ones on here regurgitating "well there's nothing you can do about it" will be saying the exact same thing....

Again, you're talking about Music Analysis and GE, not the brass caption. I think you are overexaggerating how loud those speakers actually are on the field. I'm going to use the Cavaliers as an example because I personally thought they were the loudest when it came to amplification. Listen to the percussion judge tape or the drum set run through GoPro video and listen for yourself on how "loud" it is from on the field. Yes I know a judges tape isn't the most high quality thing out there but it's relatively good. And the drum set cam should just reinforce it even more with them being indoors and the speakers aimed at a wall 10 ft in front of them. Can you hear "my way" coming from the speakers? Absolutely, you can on both tapes but no where near the volume that it is from the stands where the speakers are actually meant to project the sound. If the Ott was awarded from one of the judges upstairs then you're argument might have some weight. But it isn't so I'm going to have to just disagree with you.

So I'll say it again, find me a brass judge that judges a show by the speakers instead of by the hornline and I'll gladly admit I am wrong.

Edited August 22, 2017 by wilme861

[Bobby L. Collins]

1 minute ago, wilme861 said:

Again, you're talking about Music Analysis and GE, not the brass caption. I think you are overexaggerating how loud those speakers actually are on the field. I'm going to use the Cavaliers as an example because I personally thought they were the loudest when it came to amplification. Listen to the percussion judge tape or the drum set run through GoPro video and listen for yourself on how "loud" it is from on the field. Yes I know a judges tape isn't the most high quality thing out there but it's relatively good. And the drum set cam should just reinforce it even more with them being indoors and the speakers aimed at a wall 10 ft in front of them. Can you hear "my way" coming from the speakers? Absolutely, you can on both tapes but no where near the volume that it is from the stands where the speakers are actually meant to project the sound. If the Ott was awarded from one of the judges upstairs then you're argument might have some weight. But it isn't so I'm going to have to just disagree with you.

So I'll say it again, find me a brass judge that judges a show by the speakers instead of by the hornline and I'll gladly I am wrong.

You're just not getting it.

The trickery is blurring the lines between what THE LISTENER can discern as coming from either the horns or the speakers.  And the "listener" includes the judges.

What judge can make a legitimate assessment of a hornline when he is hearing said hornline both in front of him AND behind him at the same time?  A judge simply cannot objectively critique a live hornline when it's being purposefully obfuscated and/or manipulated by the audio engineers and iPads in the stands.  That crap does a splendid job of fooling the audience, and by and large it's doing a magnificent job of fooling the judges as well.  Or so it seems.

Then again, perhaps the judges have the very same concerns, and have expressed those concerns upon deaf ears (after all, they serve at the pleasure of the corps directors, who are bound and determined to knock themselves right out of business with this pointless arms race).  It's the same boat as the marching members; either tolerate it and embrace it, or take a hike and go home, complain about it on the internet, and get slapped around by sunshine pumping trolls on sites like this.

Too many of you can't see the forest for the trees.  It's escalated to the point where the hornlines are superfluous and redundant.  There's nothing they can do out there anymore that the color guard and an ARIA plugin can't do just as well, at a fraction of the cost.  THAT is where this activity is headed.  Is that what you want?  Because that's what you're going to get if you don't start being a little more objective.

[Hook'emCavies]

On 8/21/2017 at 0:15 AM, westcoastblue said:

Sorry, Boss. I appreciate your loyalty and all, but did you hear them this summer. I mean really hear them. Lots of rows to hoe to get that field producing an Ott. 

Actually yes. Their low brass sounded extremely good, mellos were wonderful and sadly I feel like the trumpets were the weakest link. If they address that I can see the horn line finishing top 3. They had lots of moments that reminded me of the early 2000s horn line... but if you ask me any corps that finished in the top 5 has a good shot at taking that trophy home. I just hope that The Cavaliers can continue to impress.

[GREENBLUE]

58 minutes ago, wilme861 said:

Again, you're talking about Music Analysis and GE, not the brass caption. I think you are overexaggerating how loud those speakers actually are on the field. I'm going to use the Cavaliers as an example because I personally thought they were the loudest when it came to amplification. Listen to the percussion judge tape or the drum set run through GoPro video and listen for yourself on how "loud" it is from on the field. Yes I know a judges tape isn't the most high quality thing out there but it's relatively good. And the drum set cam should just reinforce it even more with them being indoors and the speakers aimed at a wall 10 ft in front of them. Can you hear "my way" coming from the speakers? Absolutely, you can on both tapes but no where near the volume that it is from the stands where the speakers are actually meant to project the sound. If the Ott was awarded from one of the judges upstairs then you're argument might have some weight. But it isn't so I'm going to have to just disagree with you.

So I'll say it again, find me a brass judge that judges a show by the speakers instead of by the hornline and I'll gladly admit I am wrong.

If you think the Cavaliers were loudest in amplification you must of not watched a Bluecoats show live. I literally had to hold my ears during finals the sound was so loud coming through the speakers during Bloo and I'm not exaggerating. There were so many examples of instrumentation being back field yet the sound was coming from the speakers and not just during the ballad. My frustration lies not with amplified for volume but what SCV did mixing/amplifying the small group to make it sound like the full corps was playing the parts throughout the whole show.

[wilme861]

22 minutes ago, GREENBLUE said:

If you think the Cavaliers were loudest in amplification you must of not watched a Bluecoats show live. I literally had to hold my ears during finals the sound was so loud coming through the speakers during Bloo and I'm not exaggerating. There were so many examples of instrumentation being back field yet the sound was coming from the speakers and not just during the ballad. My frustration lies not with amplified for volume but what SCV did mixing/amplifying the small group to make it sound like the full corps was playing the parts throughout the whole show.

I saw them 3 times live. For me, the Cavaliers were easily the loudest with having to get Frank Sinatra louder than the corps at full volume at the end.

[Hook'emCavies]

 

 

4 minutes ago, wilme861 said:

I saw them 3 times live. For me, the Cavaliers were easily the loudest with having to get Frank Sinatra louder than the corps at full volume at the end.

In Houston BD were the worst..... 

Note, that I am not taking a jab at any corps just saying that I heard a lot of amped bass from BD, Cavies (that hurt), crown... actually everyone. 

Edited August 22, 2017 by Hook'emCavies

[wilme861]

1 hour ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

You're just not getting it.

The trickery is blurring the lines between what THE LISTENER can discern as coming from either the horns or the speakers.  And the "listener" includes the judges.

What judge can make a legitimate assessment of a hornline when he is hearing said hornline both in front of him AND behind him at the same time?  A judge simply cannot objectively critique a live hornline when it's being purposefully obfuscated and/or manipulated by the audio engineers and iPads in the stands.  That crap does a splendid job of fooling the audience, and by and large it's doing a magnificent job of fooling the judges as well.  Or so it seems.

I must be an idiot then...

If a brass or percussion judge on the field is having the problem you are saying they have, then we have some real issues with judges. Fortunately, they seem to do the impossible and actually judge the brass and percussion even with those mighty speakers going crazy behind them. I wonder how the corps staff manages to clean them at all since they can't tell which is real and fake...

Obviously you disagree with some brass standings, so what did they screw up in your opinion? Was the battle for the Ott between the wrong corps? You're making an argument that judging  at field level, there are issues but I just don't see where.

[wilme861]

13 minutes ago, Hook'emCavies said:

 

 

In Houston BD were the worst..... 

Note, that I am not taking a jab at any corps just saying that I heard a lot of amped bass from BD, Cavies (that hurt), crown... actually everyone. 

BD were definitely loud but I think I was just preparing for it being unbearable from all the talk from San Antonio and Atlanta but I didn't think it was too bad in Indy. Cavies just stood out to me the most with the end of their show.

[Bobby L. Collins]

7 minutes ago, wilme861 said:

I must be an idiot then...

If a brass or percussion judge on the field is having the problem you are saying they have, then we have some real issues with judges. Fortunately, they seem to do the impossible and actually judge the brass and percussion even with those mighty speakers going crazy behind them. I wonder how the corps staff manages to clean them at all since they can't tell which is real and fake...

Obviously you disagree with some brass standings, so what did they screw up in your opinion? Was the battle for the Ott between the wrong corps? You're making an argument that judging  at field level, there are issues but I just don't see where.

Buddy, I disagree with ALL of the standings, because they are no longer being objectively adjudicated on their own merits.  Far as I'm concerned, every single corps on the field should be automatically disqualified from competition the second the horns are drowned out by the front ensemble playing BrassSynth2 on  Casio keyboards.  It's a disingenuous, egregious trick that you lot are trying to use to define the sound of modern-day hornlines, and you are gravely mistaken if you believe that's what they really sound like.

 

[CrownBariDad]

3 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

Buddy, I disagree with ALL of the standings, because they are no longer being objectively adjudicated on their own merits.  Far as I'm concerned, every single corps on the field should be automatically disqualified from competition the second the horns are drowned out by the front ensemble playing BrassSynth2 on  Casio keyboards.  It's a disingenuous, egregious trick that you lot are trying to use to define the sound of modern-day hornlines, and you are gravely mistaken if you believe that's what they really sound like.

 

Which Corps used Casio?  I usually scope out synth brands in the pit, so I must have missed it.