Which Corps will be the recipient of the Ott ?

[Hook'emCavies]

42 minutes ago, wilme861 said:

BD were definitely loud but I think I was just preparing for it being unbearable from all the talk from San Antonio and Atlanta but I didn't think it was too bad in Indy. Cavies just stood out to me the most with the end of their show.

I get ya. I was not in Indy so I can not say who had the amps turned up the most. But I will say I was annoyed with everyone about the amps... but it is what it is

[ShortAndFast]

2 hours ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

What judge can make a legitimate assessment of a hornline when he is hearing said hornline both in front of him AND behind him at the same time?  A judge simply cannot objectively critique a live hornline when it's being purposefully obfuscated and/or manipulated by the audio engineers and iPads in the stands.  That crap does a splendid job of fooling the audience, and by and large it's doing a magnificent job of fooling the judges as well.  Or so it seems.

On 8/20/2017 at 5:09 PM, Bobby L. Collins said:

I encourage everyone to watch gopro headcams on YouTube to hear what these hornlines actually sound like.  Don't listen so much to the ones upon which the cameras are mounted, but rather those around them.  If the power went out during a performance, most of these corps would be severely crippled.

So, just to be clear: you, Bobby L Collins, are able to watch a GoPro video and accurately determine what DCI hornlines really sound like, including distinguishing between material played by actual brass instruments and that produced by electronics. Yet DCI's brass judging faculty, who stand on the field directly in front of the performers, cannot distinguish between the two and consequently cannot tell what hornlines actually sound like.

Perhaps the solution is some kind of training session, where you can impart your knowledge to the brass adjudicators? John Phillips is DCI's Chief Judge, and Lee Carlson is the Artistic Director. You can reach both through the DCI offices. I am sure both men would welcome your suggestions on how to best conduct this training, so that we can fairly determine the Ott winner in 2018. Please let us know what they have to say.

[DasTuba]

If I can tell the difference between brass and amplification from the stands, I'm pretty #### sure the judges can do it while standing right in front of the hornlines on the field..... I'll say it again, I think you're exaggerating just a little bit here.

[Bobby L. Collins]

40 minutes ago, ShortAndFast said:

So, just to be clear: you, Bobby L Collins, are able to watch a GoPro video and accurately determine what DCI hornlines really sound like, including distinguishing between material played by actual brass instruments and that produced by electronics. Yet DCI's brass judging faculty, who stand on the field directly in front of the performers, cannot distinguish between the two and consequently cannot tell what hornlines actually sound like.

Perhaps the solution is some kind of training session, where you can impart your knowledge to the brass adjudicators? John Phillips is DCI's Chief Judge, and Lee Carlson is the Artistic Director. You can reach both through the DCI offices. I am sure both men would welcome your suggestions on how to best conduct this training, so that we can fairly determine the Ott winner in 2018. Please let us know what they have to say.

Of course I can.  Just about any trained musician with a background in marching can.  To be entirely blunt, it's simply common sense.  I'm sorry you can't hear it.  Let me rephrase; I'm sorry you refuse to open your ears and listen.

Like I said, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if judges haven't already approached those individuals and said to them "We can't tell what's real and what's electronic anymore", and they were most likely met with the response "Don't worry about it, just treat it like it's all real, and don't rock the boat; otherwise we can find other judges who won't".

There's not a soul in the activity with a shred of sense in his/her brain that can honestly say that hornlines are getting a fair shake at adjudication with all the other extraneous noises bouncing around the stadiums through those speakers...noises designed to sound exactly like the tones that should be emanating from the horns laying on the field while the the brass players are sashaying from one scatterdrill to the next, screaming DUT DUT DUT DUT because they can't find the beat among all the amplified swill.

[ShortAndFast]

23 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

Of course I can.  Just about any trained musician with a background in marching can.  To be entirely blunt, it's simply common sense.  I'm sorry you can't hear it.  Let me rephrase; I'm sorry you refuse to open your ears and listen.

Like I said, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if judges haven't already approached those individuals and said to them "We can't tell what's real and what's electronic anymore", and they were most likely met with the response "Don't worry about it, just treat it like it's all real, and don't rock the boat; otherwise we can find other judges who won't".

There's not a soul in the activity with a shred of sense in his/her brain that can honestly say that hornlines are getting a fair shake at adjudication with all the other extraneous noises bouncing around the stadiums through those speakers...noises designed to sound exactly like the tones that should be emanating from the horns laying on the field while the the brass players are sashaying from one scatterdrill to the next, screaming DUT DUT DUT DUT because they can't find the beat among all the amplified swill.

I find it astounding that "any trained musician with a background in marching" can distinguish acoustic from electronic brass sounds, but yet the brass judges "can't tell what's real and what's electronic". 

Here is a biography of Jeff Harper (taken from here), who judged brass at finals this year:

Quote

Jeff Harper, Kennesaw, GA Jeff Harper is currently Director of Bands at McEachern High School in Powder Springs, Georgia. Before his appointment at McEachern High School, he was the Associate Director of Bands at Kennesaw Mountain High School for nine years. While teaching at Kennesaw Mountain High School, the band program received acclaim through national and regional performances including the Midwest Band and Orchestra Clinic, Bands of America and Winter Guard International. Mr. Harper received a bachelor of music degree from the University of Georgia and a master of music education degree from the University of Illinois. Mr. Harper was a performing member, and later on staff, of the Cadets of Bergen County Drum and Bugle Corps. He has served as a guest clinician for numerous school groups as well as a national adjudicator for BOA, Drum Corps International and Drum Corps Japan. In addition to judging, Mr. Harper teaches leadership clinics and conducting seminars.

Would you say that Mr. Harper is a "trained musician with a background in marching"? 

[Bobby L. Collins]

I would say he's a man that doesn't want the rock the boat and be sent home by DCI.

I would also say that he's going to do whatever George Hopkins bloody well tells him to do, up to and including ignoring electronic shenanigans.

I will go on to say that probably no brass judge on the field today is oblivious to the wool that's being pulled over their eyes and ears.  And if they are, well, then those are most likely the go-to judges in the activity for years to come.

After all, it looks far more impressive on a resume and bio to say "Served as an adjudicator for Drum Corps International" than it does to say "Took a stand against the corruption and subversion of the drum corps activity into summertime color guard with electronic accompaniment".

[Cappybara]

18 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

I would say he's a man that doesn't want the rock the boat and be sent home by DCI.

Do you seriously think judges get paid that much that they would be afraid to be sent home by DCI? The people who are DCI judges are already very established instructors. They don't need DCI judging to pad their resume like someone straight out of college 

I would also get your George Hopkins complex fixed up, you vilify him way more than he deserves

Edited August 22, 2017 by Cappybara

[ShortAndFast]

12 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

I would say he's a man that doesn't want the rock the boat and be sent home by DCI.

I would also say that he's going to do whatever George Hopkins bloody well tells him to do, up to and including ignoring electronic shenanigans.

I will go on to say that probably no brass judge on the field today is oblivious to the wool that's being pulled over their eyes and ears.  And if they are, well, then those are most likely the go-to judges in the activity for years to come.

After all, it looks far more impressive on a resume and bio to say "Served as an adjudicator for Drum Corps International" than it does to say "Took a stand against the corruption and subversion of the drum corps activity into summertime color guard with electronic accompaniment".

I'm sure when you reviewed the finals recap, you noted that Mr. Harper had Cadets 8th in brass, 10th in brass content. Do you suppose that's what George Hopkins told him to do?

[Bobby L. Collins]

7 minutes ago, ShortAndFast said:

I'm sure when you reviewed the finals recap, you noted that Mr. Harper had Cadets 8th in brass, 10th in brass content. Do you suppose that's what George Hopkins told him to do?

Without doctoring the scores, that's really all he COULD do.  He can't exactly make them put their horns up to their faces so he can score them higher, now can he?

 

[Cappybara]

11 hours ago, Bobby L. Collins said:

Without doctoring the scores, that's really all he COULD do.  He can't exactly make them put their horns up to their faces so he can score them higher, now can he?

 

But your entire premise is that scores are made up and doctored and that George Hopkins is controlling all the shots