ContraFart Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 32 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: i'm not a guard expert so I dont know if it was better or not. I know honestly I once won a title and our best run of the year was at rehearsal at before prelims. Prelims itself we #### the bed, and finals was way better, but not what saturday morning's run at the rehearsal site was. I'm sure there are guard people who agree Saturday night wasn't as good, I didnt look. But then again, how many BD fans still think they got robbed in 08, 11 or 13? often times "better" is in the eye of the beer holder Or how many Crown fans that day they got robbed in 09, 12 or 15? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 52 minutes ago, BRASSO said: Just one MORE reason why the request to not name judges NOW regarding their alleged " being too old " ( ageism, no matter how we slice it ) or other alleged judge " biases " issues seems rather peculiar. I'm ok with not naming judges that the OP is referring to here, just feel that the need to not now name these judges with these alleged " biases" never seemed to stop DCP'ers before on here . one of the best judges I know, regardless of circuit, is 78 years old. Ageism is more of a mental thing here than actual calendar age. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 42 minutes ago, Ghost said: Yes, but wouldn't they have had to watch closely the previous nights corps, then put down their caption scores based on how they thought each corps did in comparison to the previous night? Pretty impossible to do I'd say. actually i'm sure they watched semis but......semis means nothing. judge the show of the day. bottom line. I've seen bands the weekend before have lights out performances, and the next week come out flat. I've seen bands tank the first week, and the next week be a whole new ballgame. same with drum corps. judge the show of the day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 33 minutes ago, ContraFart said: Or how many Crown fans that day they got robbed in 09, 12 or 15? 15 is the only one I see a real complaint. While no fan of the BD shows in 09 or 2012, Crown wasn't as good total corps as BD was.And given how during the 15 season they beat each other multiple times....on any given day.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: one of the best judges I know, regardless of circuit, is 78 years old. Ageism is more of a mental thing here than actual calendar age. I agree Jeff. I know ( I'm sure most people do ) people that seem" old" to us in their thinking and in their work habits at age 25, 35, 45 or whatever... while others are sharp, and on top of things, well into their older years. It is a " mental " and an " ability " thing, as you said. We are not asking these DCI judges to do a physical endurance test, ie run a 100 yard dash, or make it thru a Basic Training Military Boot Camp, or some such... haha! . Most DCI judges have seemingly been able to properly assess " Progressive " and or " New Age " DCI shows, as near as I can tell anyway. So I'm not sure what the beef is here. Edited August 21, 2017 by BRASSO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barigirl78 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 In regards to judging, does anyone know how judges are chosen for the three shows in Indianapolis? Or for the regionals, for that matter? Are their names pulled at random or does someone actually select them? If they are selected, what are the criteria for being selected to judge the show that will determine the final results of the season? If they are selected, who selects them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 hour ago, BRASSO said: I agree Jeff. I know ( I'm sure most people do ) people that seem" old" to us in their thinking and in their work habits at age 25, 35, 45 or whatever... while others are sharp, and on top of things, well into their older years. It is a " mental " and an " ability " thing, as you said. We are not asking these DCI judges to do a physical endurance test, ie run a 100 yard dash, or make it thru a Basic Training Military Boot Camp, or some such... haha! . Most DCI judges have seemingly been able to properly assess " Progressive " and or " New Age " DCI shows, as near as I can tell anyway. So I'm not sure what the beef is here. look at age 34 when A&E first passed, I was the leader of the "get off my lawn" crowd here on DCP. the OP is talking less age physically than age mentally. It is human nature at some point for most of us to get set in our ways, draw lines in the sand, and yell at those darn kids to get off my lawn. I already see it with boys being "too" friendly with my oh so adorable and too good for any of them 5 year old daughter LOL. Knowing a few people who have recently been added to the DCI roster, I know the training isn't just "you have a heartbeat? ok you're in" that used to be the case in hundreds of circuits...and may even still be in a few LOL.I had to do a homework assignment before my circuits judges clinic so the facilitator could see where my mind is at on that sheet....which i honestly enjoyed the hell out of it. Nice way to wake up the brain as the season is about to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 22 minutes ago, barigirl78 said: In regards to judging, does anyone know how judges are chosen for the three shows in Indianapolis? Or for the regionals, for that matter? Are their names pulled at random or does someone actually select them? If they are selected, what are the criteria for being selected to judge the show that will determine the final results of the season? If they are selected, who selects them? i dont know the specifics, but I'm sure in season evaluation plays a part as well as quality of work from prior seasons. availability helps too. Some judges may say "hey I cant work that week". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 3 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: sure as soon as a guard trots one out. Just because they arent used doesnt mean the commentary and rationale spoken by the judges doesnt mean their preferences arent crystal clear. Look at these forums...how many people want say the Cadets to be the Cadets, or the Troopers to get back to being The Troopers...some udges want corps to be that corps, no matter what. your problem is you're trying to be too literal, and asking for things you'll never truly see. I'm sure you've judged with people who have loudly stated their preferences, and seen it show up in their results. Both you and I are judges; both you and I have our preferences just like the DCI judges have their preferences. But we all set aside, as much as humanly possible, our preferences to adjudicate as fairly as possible to the sheets. The contention by the OP was that 'many', and he did state 'many', DCI judges should retire because they are rewarding older designs and do not judge newer designs properly. You even defended that point. Neither one of you can cite proof via the past few season scores and rankings of DCI WC corps. Nowhere can it be found that newer designs are getting whacked by DCI older judges desiring older designs. The scoring actually shows the opposite, that all of the judges are rewarding newer designs with top tier scores. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 6 hours ago, ContraFart said: I already said I stood corrected at that previous statement. However the same thing happened last year with Crowns guard and the head to head was even or had crown ahead by one coming into championship week. IMO Crowns guard had the run of lifetime on Saturday night, yet still lost only on Saturday night. It still does not address the premise. If judging in and of itself if so fluid that 2 panels will not score the same exact show the same on the exact same night (which was mentioned in this thread) then what weight to the scores actually have? Why is consistency among panels not even a goal? Run of a lifetime was Friday night for Crown. There was nothing "run of a lifetime" about their Saturday performance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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