Late night thoughts: Amplification & Electronics from the Judging standpoint

[Jeff Ream]

9 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Without time to give this adequate thought, my first instinct is that we need to return to 2009 rules to reclaim the spirit in which electronic instruments were introduced.  

For instance, during the competitive program, there would be no pre-recorded sequences.  One stroke = one sound.  To blast pre-recorded singing of the word "DIAMOND", the synth player would have to make two keystrokes (one for each syllable).  The pre-show would allow any amount of sequenced, pre-recorded material that the corps has permission (licensing) to use.

Amplification of brass players would be limited to soloists in the pit area, and no more than 12 players.  Using either wireless mics or sideline mics to amplify marching brass or percussion performers would not be allowed.  This would still allow creative effects such as pitch-bending to be employed, while preventing concerns about entire hornlines auto-tuning themselves.

Samples or pre-recorded brass sounds, or sounds intended to mimic brass, would not be allowed.

Wireless mics for vocalists were allowed under 2009 rules.  However, the "general effect" of their use was supposed to be considered under 2009 rules, and 2017 rules.  If such usage mars the "general effect" of a show to the point where the other 11 finals night performances are all more effective, then that usage should receive 12th place in GE2 at finals.  Once that starts happening, corps will figure how how to use wireless mics where consistent success can be achieved (or conversely, how not to use them where such consistency cannot be assured).

the only problem i have with one stroke one sound, i also have in indoor.....how do you monitor it?

 

field judges dont have the time to sit there and watch the synth player, and in order to get to the synth player, the T&P person would literally have to get out on the field and be right up the performers ### to be able to see.Plus, given that often times both hands are in use, which hand is doing what? in the 15 keystokes you may have seen them do, all you needed was for one to trigger the whole thing...the rest could be smoke and mirrors.Oh sure there's the "spirit of fair play" etc notion, but remember, Bluecoats were caught controlling sound remotely before it was legal, and they were let off with a warning not to do it again. The next year the rule was changed.

[Jeff Ream]

3 hours ago, Fred Windish said:

Ooooh . . . .

Looks like none of them are employed as electrical sound equipment engineers!

you havent seen Broken Arrow have you?

[Ediker]

36 minutes ago, snare_guy_83 said:

Most people didn't know. I noticed the switch up at Allentown because I'm a data analyst, so I like to track the numbers. Then watched for it during championships.

Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me. I hope DrumScorps gets your help in sorting it out. 

[Fred Windish]

32 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

you havent seen Broken Arrow have you?

Actually, I have not.   Part of the appeal in signing up for a full year of FLO was to become more familiar with high level high school bands and WGI groups. I've been avoiding both of those, except for still photos in Drum Corps World.  But, what you just asked is giving me pause.  I'm beyond my limit of electronics and amplification in DCI now. Are you telling me it gets worse?

[Jeff Ream]

4 minutes ago, Fred Windish said:

Actually, I have not.   Part of the appeal in signing up for a full year of FLO was to become more familiar with high level high school bands and WGI groups. I've been avoiding both of those, except for still photos in Drum Corps World.  But, what you just asked is giving me pause.  I'm beyond my limit of electronics and amplification in DCI now. Are you telling me it gets worse?

worse depends on your personal preferences. is the usage as prevalent? yes, maybe a tad moreso

[wilme861]

6 hours ago, snare_guy_83 said:

 

http://recaps.competitionsuite.com/1b7406bd-65dc-41b2-b028-f8cac3826e80.htm

The 2 GE Music Judges were McGahey and Davis. Stone and Gray were visual. DCI shuffled the order of GE judges to Visual, Music, Music, Visual.

So Crown was 2nd (19.5) and 3rd (19.3) in GE Music Finals night. Overall 3rd (19.4 average) in GE Music. SCV was 19.525 GE Music average.

 I was literally just going to make a post asking if anyone noticed this change on the recaps for championships! I only ever use the recaps off competition suite and I've noticed during the year that sometimes music GE judges were in the first two spots and other times in the last two spots so I started paying attention to the actual judges to figure out which was music and which was visual. But I noticed for prelims that they had mixed it up but figured that maybe DCI was just trying something. Glad I wasn't the only one to notice this.

Thanks for making my post for me though! Saved me the work of typing it all up lol

[cixelsyd]

13 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

the only problem i have with one stroke one sound, i also have in indoor.....how do you monitor it?

 

field judges dont have the time to sit there and watch the synth player, and in order to get to the synth player, the T&P person would literally have to get out on the field and be right up the performers ### to be able to see.Plus, given that often times both hands are in use, which hand is doing what? in the 15 keystokes you may have seen them do, all you needed was for one to trigger the whole thing...the rest could be smoke and mirrors.Oh sure there's the "spirit of fair play" etc notion, but remember, Bluecoats were caught controlling sound remotely before it was legal, and they were let off with a warning not to do it again. The next year the rule was changed.

Good points.

My reaction is that if electronics are that important to DCI, then they are worth the cost of having one additional contest official dedicated to observing their usage to see that they comply with the rules.  I realize that there is still potential for cheating even then, but there might be enough of a chance of getting caught to serve as a deterrent.

[Jeff Ream]

5 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Good points.

My reaction is that if electronics are that important to DCI, then they are worth the cost of having one additional contest official dedicated to observing their usage to see that they comply with the rules.  I realize that there is still potential for cheating even then, but there might be enough of a chance of getting caught to serve as a deterrent.

again...even if you have a judge right there watching....there's ways to get around it. What go to rehearsal and watch? Sure, they can show it to you at rehearsal within the rules. Does it mean they will do it that way at a show? 

[Schnitzel]

15 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Good points.

My reaction is that if electronics are that important to DCI, then they are worth the cost of having one additional contest official dedicated to observing their usage to see that they comply with the rules.  I realize that there is still potential for cheating even then, but there might be enough of a chance of getting caught to serve as a deterrent.

As a practical matter, DCI likely wouldn't fund another position for judges.  There are requests most every off-season for 2 percussion @ each show.  In practice, some early-season judges have none.  To be kind, DCI is thrifty when it comes to judging expenses - very thrifty.

[Jeff Ream]

18 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Good points.

My reaction is that if electronics are that important to DCI, then they are worth the cost of having one additional contest official dedicated to observing their usage to see that they comply with the rules.  I realize that there is still potential for cheating even then, but there might be enough of a chance of getting caught to serve as a deterrent.

you still cant prove it. First off, the official would have to be wherever they put the synth player...often in the middle of the insanity known as the pit....and often right where performers come to for sidelines changes of equipment, uniform etc. 

 

Then..again the technology allows you to hit one button to trigger a sound. So literally a kid could hit that button, and then pretend to be hitting other buttons that supposedly make the sound, when in reality it doesnt do a #### thing. So then DCi is paying someone to supposedly catch something....from behind the speakers remember....that could easily be hidden.