Kamarag Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said: After what I saw at Reading I will greatly disagree with you. Corps scoring close to 90 or above should not have visible blown step offs, halts, bumper cars or out of step members. It was as so bad old ladies around me caught it. And it's been a growing trend, right up to the top corps as visual risk has grown. There re are things you just will not catch up too and nor should they be asked to. That's not the nature of the sheet It's exactly the nature of the sheet (I'm looking at it). I can't tell you what was on anyone's tapes at the Reading show, but I certainly can tell you that individual and ensemble effort are considered when it comes to individual & ensemble control and clarity, precision & uniformity, and the achievement of technique in form, body & equipment. Those bullets on the clarity and excellence side of the sheet (as well as the other bullets) absolutely cover your blown step-offs/halts and out-of-step issues. As I said, we've had that credited/criticized on the VE tapes all year. Now as I said earlier, you may not think some judges are applying the criteria of the placemat correctly (and they may well not be), but the criteria is certainly there. In that case it's a matter of training, not sheet design. Edited September 5, 2017 by Kamarag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Kamarag said: Now as I said earlier, you may not think some judges are applying the criteria of the placemat correctly (and they may well not be), but the criteria is certainly there. In that case it's a matter of training, not sheet design. Then perhaps that training, or additional training, needs to be done... because I'm seeing much of the same stuff Jeff is seeing. And the flip side... at one show, I saw a corps (from upstairs) which, IMO, clearly out-executed another corps from a visual standpoint, across the board... intervals, forms, technique, you name it... yet scored lower in visual performance. I'm not an expert on this stuff, by any means... but in this case, it really stood out for me. Sometimes... as good as all-age corps have gotten, and the overall quality-level improvement is, to me, without dispute in recent years... i think some of the corps sometimes bite off more than can chew from a sheer physical demand standpoint visually, and are not always held accountable. Judges "get it right" much more often then they get it wrong... but still. Edited September 5, 2017 by Fran Haring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 2 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: After what I saw at Reading I will greatly disagree with you. Corps scoring close to 90 or above should not have visible blown step offs, halts, bumper cars or out-of-step members. It was as so bad old ladies around me caught it. And it's been a growing trend, right up to the top corps as visual risk has grown. I overheard one older lady at the alumni show telling another that in Prelims the previous night, she saw a tuba player for one top six corps who was out of step much of the show. The same corps had a trumpet player come in noticeably early at one point later that day in Finals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 13 hours ago, Fran Haring said: I can easily see CT moving up. And doing well in Open. Personally I think they should wait at least one more year (earning a score that would show they could make Finals in Open, as Govies and Sabers have in the past), but obviously they'll do what they think is best for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 8 hours ago, George Dixon said: so... which corps were everyone's top 3? i really liked a bunch of the corps but my top 3 in terms of just enjoyment were 1. CV 2. C2 3. Kidsgrove my guard pick would be CV percussion C2 Brass Bucs Visual overall Bucs just feet Kidsgrove solos Cabs In terms of sheer enjoyment: 1. Atlanta CV -- I laughed out loud when they "realized" their prism graphic 2. Buccaneers -- the sheer excellence was undeniable, but the design was reminiscent of Cadets' 2007 show 3. Kidsgrove -- but I'm fine with their placement C2 had the second-hardest show on the field (or maybe even the hardest), but even at Finals, there was so much cleaning still to do; also I don't care for the design. Although much better than Cadets' 2008, of which it was vaguely suggestive. (And while it did feel a bit like Cabs were getting the shaft at Finals yet again, this was my least favorite show from Hawthorne in a while. Should have been first not second (before penalty) in 2014, third not fourth in 2015, and maybe third not fourth in 2016, but fourth seems fair this year. In my opinion, anyway.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 6 hours ago, Kamarag said: It's exactly the nature of the sheet (I'm looking at it). I can't tell you what was on anyone's tapes at the Reading show, but I certainly can tell you that individual and ensemble effort are considered when it comes to individual & ensemble control and clarity, precision & uniformity, and the achievement of technique in form, body & equipment. Those bullets on the clarity and excellence side of the sheet (as well as the other bullets) absolutely cover your blown step-offs/halts and out-of-step issues. As I said, we've had that credited/criticized on the VE tapes all year. Now as I said earlier, you may not think some judges are applying the criteria of the placemat correctly (and they may well not be), but the criteria is certainly there. In that case it's a matter of training, not sheet design. They can't be or people wouldn't be getting 9's. Because you can't see it all upstairs because of what else the sheet wants. It's physics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florida Sun Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 One has to wonder what the scores might have been with M&M judges on the field scoring ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 20 hours ago, Kay said: Too bad its the first time an international corps placed 7th, but facts have never been important for your conspiracy theories. What is an "international corps", then? Was Kidsgrove not an "international corps" when they finished 7th in 2012? Or Yokohama Inspires, when they finished 7th in 2004? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burdettsky Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 18 hours ago, camel lips said: Skyliners should have started in November like the rest of the pack or else they would not be sitting on the sidelines . Ummmmmm, what the hell is this guy even talking about, and why is he saying this? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said: Personally I think they should wait at least one more year (earning a score that would show they could make Finals in Open, as Govies and Sabers have in the past), but obviously they'll do what they think is best for them. Good point. Open Class is about more than just what a corps looks like on the field... it's about the strength and stability of the organization itself. So like you said, CT will make that call, whatever works for them!!! Edited September 5, 2017 by Fran Haring 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.