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G7 part 2, Eletronics Boogaloo


Stu

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On 9/16/2017 at 6:33 PM, garfield said:

As far as the proposal...  what?  You agreed with throwing 8 - 22 under the bus and to their own league to make it as good as they can?  Even as they acknowledged that they were "the draw" and suggesting that they O-13 wasn't able to carry it's own weight?

"punctuated equilibrium"?  Really?  How about Creative Destruction?  Better?

Always lots to do.  In the mind of the "creative" class, always much to do.

"National Class"?  Uh, no.

Regional Class?  Uh, no.

No, one championship.  KIds just want to know where they stack up.  If they win OC, they'll want to know where they stack up against WC.  It's human nature.  "Stripes on a zebra" stuff.

Where will we get?  

"#babysteps" is the same as "nudge".   But now that people know, it's not effective.  They won't willingly be manipulated.

#TryAgain

 

"Uh, no." isn't a debate winning argument.

But no "try again" as we simply disagree and that's fine!

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On 9/16/2017 at 6:07 AM, George Dixon said:

As far as G7 - I agree with the proposal - but not the sales job. 

Evolution has fits and starts... G7 is much like "punctuated equilibrium" - the best ideas have been selected/incorporated and drum corps is far healthier and better for it

there's much more to be done

"World Class" should be broken into "World Class" and "National Class"

"Open Class" should become "Regional Class"

3 championships awarded

I have a completely different take.

We adopted virtually none of the G7 ideas, and drum corps is far better off for it.

There is no sensible reason to divide WC against itself.  We already have three classes (WC, OC, and SoundSport), based on practical principles.

Why would you even want to re-name OC "regional class"?  Nearly all OC corps go to world championships annually, and the majority of them travel out of region to do so.

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35 minutes ago, George Dixon said:

"Uh, no." isn't a debate winning argument.

But no "try again" as we simply disagree and that's fine!

OK, fair point with an admission that I'm not a smarty-pants.  But I am a tough sell.

"National" and "Regional" classes sounds like just another means to cloister off those who classify "success" just one way - all ways.  For those who haven't won a medal or made the top-X or started international orgs, well, the G7 told us what to expect.  Open Class is a fine example of what those in Regional Class can expect; i.e. more of the same: little support beyond a platform that will continue to be eroded with arguments that zero resources should be spent on supporting it.

I'll shut up now and listen to your rationale for the two classes and try to keep an open mind...

But do, please, expound on how the scheme demonstrates the fiduciary responsibility to the activity.  I'll be anxious to learn...

Edited by garfield
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8 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

they had an idea, but didnt know specifically what was going to be there. there were talking points agreed to...how it was laid out in the presentation was a surprise to all when it was unveiled.

You originally and strongly said that they had no idea the additions were in there until they were shocked by reading them in a PowerPoint presentation they had not seen until 'after' it had leaked. That bilindsided discovery of those additions at the same moment the public found out was a major point on your position of defending the six. What you state now is completely different! Now you say that that had agreed to the talking points, that they did indeed have an idea of content, and the layout, which was leaked, was presented to them in a meeting 'prior' to the leak. That substantially weakens the defense of the six. So, which version do you subscribe to; or are you going to concoct a third?

Edited by Stu
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5 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

From the Cavaliers statement:

"The Cavaliers Board of Directors has discussed the proposal in detail and backs the concept of finding new ways to bring more fans and supporters to the drum corps activity."

The only contradictory aspect of their statement was when they said there would be no change in their status as a DCI member.  And that depends on how you read it.  No change yet?  Or did they disagree with the G7 threat to leave DCI if their proposal was not accepted with open arms?  I can accept the theory that Don Warren vetoed that aspect of the proposal.  However, words and actions suggest that the rest of the Cavaliers organization supported the G7 ideas (and that Warren supported them all except for the "leave DCI" part).

How much did the boards know?  Based on this, maybe the "leave DCI" ultimatum was slipped in last minute without the boards knowing until after the fact.  But we have no evidence of anything else being withheld from the corps boards.  Since I oppose the G7 principles, I hope you are right, that GH slipped every page of power grabbing schemes in there behind the backs of the boards and his corps director peers, forever destroying his credibility and preventing this from ever happening again in such iconic fashion that there will be a Mother Goose fable written about it someday.

his board will pretty much back anything he does.

 

having talked to several people in the room when presented....on both sides....there were surprises to the others. Then it got out via a few people to me, i got it posted here....and boom, no one had time to retract. battle lines were drawn. While cooler heads could have prevailed and things could have been toned down, once it got out....game over.

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4 hours ago, Stu said:

You originally and strongly said that they had no idea the additions were in there until they were shocked by reading them in a PowerPoint presentation they had not seen until 'after' it had leaked. That bilindsided discovery of those additions at the same moment the public found out was a major point on your position of defending the six. What you state now is completely different! Now you say that that had agreed to the talking points, that they did indeed have an idea of content, and the layout, which was leaked, was presented to them in a meeting 'prior' to the leak. That substantially weakens the defense of the six. So, which version do you subscribe to; or are you going to concoct a third?

yes thats right and its still what i'm saying. however it's not what you're reading in my words.

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12 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

yes thats right and its still what i'm saying. however it's not what you're reading in my words.

Yeah that's right that you changed your story; and yeah that is right in what your words say.  But which story is it that you want to stick with; story 1 or story 2?

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8 minutes ago, Stu said:

Yeah that's right that you changed your story; and yeah that is right in what your words say.  But which story is it that you want to stick with; story 1 or story 2?

Stu, we love ya... we really do...

But I'm convinced that if I came on here and said something very simple, completely innocuous, as "It's a nice sunny day here in Baltimore".... you'd consider replying with, "But you're not downtown, right???  How can you say it's sunny in Baltimore if it might be cloudy downtown??? What about all those folks who might have put on sunscreen to visit the Inner Harbor, and now don't need as much sun protection???  Which is it.... is it sunny or cloudy, and why would you say it's sunny if if it's not necessarily true???" :tongue:

Geez Louise. :lol:

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On ‎9‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 5:07 AM, George Dixon said:

"World Class" should be broken into "World Class" and "National Class"

"Open Class" should become "Regional Class"

3 championships awarded

We'll get there. 

#babysteps 

 

It'd probably make more sense to go with A, Open and World, a la WGI.  Otherwise, I agree.

Mike

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5 minutes ago, Fran Haring said:

Stu, we love ya... we really do...

But I'm convinced that if I came on here and said something very simple, completely innocuous, as "It's a nice sunny day here in Baltimore".... you'd consider replying with, "But you're not downtown, right???  How can you say it's sunny in Baltimore if it might be cloudy downtown??? What about all those folks who might have put on sunscreen to visit the Inner Harbor, and now don't need as much sun protection???  Which is it.... is it sunny or cloudy, and why would you say it's sunny if if it's not necessarily true???" :tongue:

Geez Louise. :lol:

I wonder if this is just his DCP personality or also in real life. If so... :shutup:

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