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10 minutes ago, mingusmonk said:

It would be asinine to score HBCU bands against DCI corps scores. The only thing it would prove is that HBCU's aren't designing, teaching and executing to DCI sheets ... which ... duh. Why would they?

Just as it would be equally foolish to put a DCI corps into the Battle of the Bands, whose criteria corps are not designing for.

That said, as a PhD dissertation that was being derided in the media said yesterday, "species" is a social construct, i.e., like biologists, we can choose be splitters or lumpers. The Golden Globes judge comedies and dramas separately. The Oscars judge them together. We can do likewise with HBCU bands and DCI corps.

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And HBCU band announcers talk over the band for most of the show and it literally makes me want to scream. Hearing that over and over again all night is pretty brutal.

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6 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Just as it would be equally foolish to put a DCI corps into the Battle of the Bands, whose criteria corps are not designing for.

That said, as a PhD dissertation that was being derided in the media said yesterday, "species" is a social construct, i.e., like biologists, we can choose be splitters or lumpers. The Golden Globes judge comedies and dramas separately. The Oscars judge them together. We can do likewise with HBCU bands and DCI corps.

Although judging them together only goes to prove our differences and biases anyways. At least, in these insular internet forums. Read the posts on that 5th Quarter forums (clearly the Madison Scouts are inferior). Then read any post on DCP referencing HBCU's (clearly the show bands are inferior). 

ad nauseum. 

 

:sleeping: :68_sleeping:

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3 minutes ago, mingusmonk said:

Although judging them together only goes to prove our differences and biases anyways. At least, in these insular internet forums. Read the posts on that 5th Quarter forums (clearly the Madison Scouts are inferior). Then read any post on DCP referencing HBCU's (clearly the show bands are inferior). 

ad nauseum. 

 

:sleeping: :68_sleeping:

True. At the end of the day, it comes down to personal tastes. That being said, I'll go to my grave believing that one is far more demanding than the other...but I guess that just helps to prove your point.

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They are two totally different genres, with totally different purposes. But make no mistake about it, those kids can play. They style of HBCU is wholly unique and cannot be compared to any other musical genre.

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17 hours ago, MikeRapp said:

They are two totally different genres, with totally different purposes. But make no mistake about it, those kids can play. They style of HBCU is wholly unique and cannot be compared to any other musical genre.

Thank goodness. I find it completely unwatchable. 

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I'll chime in on a few things:

1. As for average talent in an HBCU band, I believe there is more than people might think. Sure, some of the kids may be raw around the edges musically, but I see that in all kinds of college bands. I'm pretty confident that many HBCU students could make our top 8 WC corps, and plenty of them would be of value to non-finalist corps and OC corps. From a physical standpoint there are plenty of drum corps that could use that kind of energy and power. 

2. As for enjoyment, I can think of years where I might have enjoyed the Honda Classic (a big HBCU event) more than DCI Finals. Not many, but certainly a few. Someone had mentioned that one of the reasons some HBCU marchers may not dig DCI is because of it's rigid, classical, militaristic nature. And I can see that. There have been years where we have had a number of DCI shows that were too rigid, too artsy, too esoteric and perhaps too contemporary for their own good.  That can be a turn off to lots of kids, and not just HBCU marchers.  No doubt I tend to dislike the crass sounds that often come from HBCU bands, especially in the low brass. Musically they can be very rough, too loud all the time, and splatty. But I just try to dig it for what it is...college football entertainment. There are plenty of college marching bands that can't play all that well, so it's not just an HBCU thing. 

3. Yes, there are announcements throughout many of the HBCU shows, but then again it's college band designed for college football games. Not a competition in the style of DCI.  Plenty of college bands have announcers on the field giving every little detail. Go watch Texas A&M. The Aggie band is awesome, totally military, with really cool announcements.  The A&M band is one of the few to march 6 to 5 (30-inch step) for the entire show, in those high-top boots.  On the other end of the spectrum there are the scramble bands that also use lots of announcing...and it can be quite comical to really bad. These are typically your bad-boy college bands like Stanford, Yale, Princeton, and other Ivy schools. 

4. The talk about judging HBCU bands against DCI units on DCI sheets, or vice-versa, is not realistic. Judging drum corps against any college marching band is not realistic and it has nothing to do with the sheets or styles.  It's all about time. Rehearsal time, design time, etc.  College bands of all types are limited to 1 to 2 hours of rehearsal per day. That's it. On game day they get in a few more hours before the game. They typically get one week of band camp (less than most high schools) and then school begins. Once in school the students are occupied by high-level academic courses, other activities including concerts, etc., and many have to work part-time jobs. Most college marching bands change their show 2 to 3 times during the season, with some changing shows for each home game. So they are learning FAR MORE music over the course of fall semester, but they simply do not have the time to max-it-out since they will likely learn a new show a week or two later.  

Come spring training drum corps have their members for 30+ days with no interference from classes, other concerts, organizational activities, work schedules, etc. They rehearse 8 to 10 hours a day during camp and the season. They have the full undivided attention of their members and they perform the same show for 2 months of tour, tweaking it and maxing out every facet possible as they work their way to DCI Finals.  

This is not a knock on either but a fair analysis of why the two can't be compared. I love all of it when done well. :)

Edited by jwillis35
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If you can't enjoy both genres for what they are, I feel sorry for you. 

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8 hours ago, SFZFAN said:

Thank goodness. I find it completely unwatchable. 

So... I guess inviting you to see a Mummers band show is out of the question?   :tongue:

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