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are brass soloists allowed to improvise


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19 hours ago, Stu said:

A) You created a paradox with connecting “We cannot know” and, "Ignore the know-it-alls"; the claim we cannot know about if or if not improv is allowed in DCI actually does make you a know-it-all on that particular subject, which in turn we are to ignore by your own directive. It is like when a person claims that there is no absolute truth; that claim in turn actually creates an absolute truth.

B) But more to the point, after you created that paradox you went on to make another definitive statement like, “In the rest of history, the best anyone will have is…”. Well that also claims you are a know-it-all concerning the rest of history; thus it should be placed in the exact same know-it-all category as the ones others post in which you want people to ignore.

There is no paradox.  It is simple, really.  No one could possibly have been in camp with the hundreds of junior corps of all time to witness how they all handled situations involving soloists interested in improvising.  Therefore, the best information we will have will be anecdotal (and I do not see a pile of such anecdotes accumulating in this thread).

What we do know, with absolute certainty, is that Stu will have the last word.

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10 hours ago, Stu said:

If an ensemble gets thrown off by an errant soloist, they are not that good of an ensemble in the first place.

By "errant" do you mean a soloist simply having a bad day, or a soloist who should never have been given a particular solo to play in the first place?  And when is that decision made? Is it made during the winter weekend camps? During move-in spring training days?  Or perhaps after the first few shows, once a given corps gets feedback from the judges and also sees how a particular soloist performs under the pressure of competition? Or does the soloist go to the corps' brass staff and/or management and say, "you know something.... I'm not the person who should be playing this solo.  Someone else should have that opportunity"?

Or does the brass staff simply take a solo away from an "errant" player, with that player then becoming so distraught by the decision that he or she leaves the corps and decides to never again take a risk, take a chance, or pursue a challenge, for the rest of his or her life?  Or does that "errant" soloist who has a solo taken away consider that a challenge that needs to be met head-on... therefore setting the stage for a life of taking on challenges and working to turn those challenges into a positive outcome, allowing that soloist to grow both personally and professionally, perhaps even to the point of becoming CEO of a Fortune 500 company, or a first-chair brass player at a symphony orchestra?

And "thrown off"... how is that defined?   Is it an ensemble that completely blows an entrance cue on a regular basis when a soloist is improvising? Or is it an ensemble that simply might be having a tough day overall, and if given a second chance, will not repeat the error it made? And is the entire ensemble being "thrown off" or just a player or two within the ensemble? And if it's just one player or two, how does a corps' brass and programming staff deal with that? Do they send the offending brass players home and fill their spots with other players?  Do they sit the offending players down and have a one-on-one chat with them, explaining how such an error is unacceptable if repeated? Or does the brass staff call out the offending players in front of the rest of the horn line,  in an effort to teach those players a lesson and also send a "you better not mess this up" message to the rest of the brass section?  And while we're on the subject, is it acceptable to call a brass ensemble a "horn line" one time and "brass section" another time in the same sentence or paragraph?

Stu, I think we all deserve to receive definitive answers, with documentation and hard facts/evidence to back up any suppositions,  to all these questions before we can proceed here.

:lol:

Edited by Fran Haring
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1 hour ago, Fran Haring said:

By "errant" do you mean a soloist simply having a bad day, or a soloist who should never have been given a particular solo to play in the first place? 

If during the actual performance the improv soloist is a good soloist and is errant with a mistake, and the ensemble falls apart, it is a bad ensemble. If the improv soloist is errent because of being a bad soloist in the first place it is a bad staff.

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2 hours ago, Fran Haring said:

 And when is that decision made? Is it made during the winter weekend camps? During move-in spring training days?  Or perhaps after the first few shows, once a given corps gets feedback from the judges and also sees how a particular soloist performs under the pressure of competition? Or does the soloist go to the corps' brass staff and/or management and say, "you know something.... I'm not the person who should be playing this solo.  Someone else should have that opportunity"?

Or does the brass staff simply take a solo away from an "errant" player, with that player then becoming so distraught by the decision that he or she leaves the corps and decides to never again take a risk, take a chance, or pursue a challenge, for the rest of his or her life?  Or does that "errant" soloist who has a solo taken away consider that a challenge that needs to be met head-on... therefore setting the stage for a life of taking on challenges and working to turn those challenges into a positive outcome, allowing that soloist to grow both personally and professionally, perhaps even to the point of becoming CEO of a Fortune 500 company, or a first-chair brass player at a symphony orchestra?

And "thrown off"... how is that defined?   Is it an ensemble that completely blows an entrance cue on a regular basis when a soloist is improvising? Or is it an ensemble that simply might be having a tough day overall, and if given a second chance, will not repeat the error it made? And is the entire ensemble being "thrown off" or just a player or two within the ensemble? And if it's just one player or two, how does a corps' brass and programming staff deal with that? Do they send the offending brass players home and fill their spots with other players?  Do they sit the offending players down and have a one-on-one chat with them, explaining how such an error is unacceptable if repeated? Or does the brass staff call out the offending players in front of the rest of the horn line,  in an effort to teach those players a lesson and also send a "you better not mess this up" message to the rest of the brass section?  And while we're on the subject, is it acceptable to call a brass ensemble a "horn line" one time and "brass section" another time in the same sentence or paragraph?

In a middle school jazz band situation I would answer all of these questions in more detail. But since this is a WC DCI thread it is this simple as it concerns the soloist: "Suck it up Buttercup! This is Major League. Perform the solo top notch or you will be replaced in short order".

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2 hours ago, Fran Haring said:

Stu, I think we all deserve to receive definitive answers, with documentation and hard facts/evidence to back up any suppositions,  to all these questions before we can proceed here.

:lol:

Not claiming anything here as fact, only my opinion. :silly:

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2 hours ago, Fran Haring said:

By "errant" do you mean a soloist simply having a bad day, or a soloist who should never have been given a particular solo to play in the first place?  And when is that decision made? Is it made during the winter weekend camps? During move-in spring training days?  Or perhaps after the first few shows, once a given corps gets feedback from the judges and also sees how a particular soloist performs under the pressure of competition? Or does the soloist go to the corps' brass staff and/or management and say, "you know something.... I'm not the person who should be playing this solo.  Someone else should have that opportunity"?

Or does the brass staff simply take a solo away from an "errant" player, with that player then becoming so distraught by the decision that he or she leaves the corps and decides to never again take a risk, take a chance, or pursue a challenge, for the rest of his or her life?  Or does that "errant" soloist who has a solo taken away consider that a challenge that needs to be met head-on... therefore setting the stage for a life of taking on challenges and working to turn those challenges into a positive outcome, allowing that soloist to grow both personally and professionally, perhaps even to the point of becoming CEO of a Fortune 500 company, or a first-chair brass player at a symphony orchestra?

And "thrown off"... how is that defined?   Is it an ensemble that completely blows an entrance cue on a regular basis when a soloist is improvising? Or is it an ensemble that simply might be having a tough day overall, and if given a second chance, will not repeat the error it made? And is the entire ensemble being "thrown off" or just a player or two within the ensemble? And if it's just one player or two, how does a corps' brass and programming staff deal with that? Do they send the offending brass players home and fill their spots with other players?  Do they sit the offending players down and have a one-on-one chat with them, explaining how such an error is unacceptable if repeated? Or does the brass staff call out the offending players in front of the rest of the horn line,  in an effort to teach those players a lesson and also send a "you better not mess this up" message to the rest of the brass section?  And while we're on the subject, is it acceptable to call a brass ensemble a "horn line" one time and "brass section" another time in the same sentence or paragraph?

Stu, I think we all deserve to receive definitive answers, with documentation and hard facts/evidence to back up any suppositions,  to all these questions before we can proceed here.

:lol:

 By my count, you asked Stu 21 questions here in this single thread, so if nothing else it should keep Stu busy as a bee today.

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