Lance Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 pretty blatant political discussion going on why is it okay in some threads, but not others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 It was interesting to see the MLB protocol last night from Houston. The TV cams focused on the players of each team standing, identically holding their right hand over each's own heart; all players bareheaded with the ballcaps at their side... so identical that you would think a DCI drillmaster had readied them for Indy Finals. Many of the players held their heads aloft and could be seen mouthing the words of the anthem. Others however just bowed their heads and stood silently. I'm not sure the thousands actually present in the stadium could see the distinctions the home-viewers watched on this International broadcast. However, the home viewer saw that not all ball players were engaged equally in the anthem playing while a larger than life flag was unfurled on the field. The style of protest was effective without much controversy. The later behavior of one of the ballplayers caused a public consternation which gives some credence to why some are protesting in the first place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironlips Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Just now, Lance said: pretty blatant political discussion going on why is it okay in some threads, but not others? You may have a point. I'm attempting to steer this towards the relationship between how the flag has been historically connected to drum corps and the way it is viewed today generally. That was the subject of the original piece. I don't think that in itself is political, but the vagaries of shifting socio-political attitudes through time are relevant. In my view, drum corps has always been a microcosm of the larger picture. As such, it has always had it's share of internal politics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skevinp Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 31 minutes ago, Lance said: pretty blatant political discussion going on why is it okay in some threads, but not others? I'm not sure it is technically political, but yeah, that's why I deleted my post within 60 seconds of writing it. I don't want to be that guy when that guy usually annoys me. In any case, it does not seem very relevant to drum corps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, ironlips said: You may have a point. I'm attempting to steer this towards the relationship between how the flag has been historically connected to drum corps and the way it is viewed today generally. That was the subject of the original piece. I don't think that in itself is political, but the vagaries of shifting socio-political attitudes through time are relevant. In my view, drum corps has always been a microcosm of the larger picture. As such, it has always had it's share of internal politics. 2 hours ago, skevinp said: I'm not sure it is technically political, but yeah, that's why I deleted my post within 60 seconds of writing it. I don't want to be that guy when that guy usually annoys me. In any case, it does not seem very relevant to drum corps. Color (the symbol of the country which is the flag of the nation; in this case the symbol that represents the USA). Guard (a unit of armed soldiers which is designated to protect The Colors). The Color Guard is one of the most coveted positions in battle with the bearer of the Colors being the most coveted. See the movie Glory as a reference. Drum Corps has a historical connection to the military, and at one time held The Color Guard in it's proper perspective of honor for The Colors. That view morphed over time within the drum corps activity to where the true aspect of the honor of the actual Colors, and the true Color Guard, is all but forgotten. Edited October 28, 2017 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, elphaba01 said: "I.C. Reveries to 27th Lancers" "Legend" has it that the "I.C" Reveries (of 1966 VFW sitin fame), continued through the 1967season participating in the World Open show (Among others), and the instructors, members and the eventual director of "Two Seven" the late George Bonfiglio (Who had been a quartermaster for Revere), founded the Lancers in the Fall of that year. "Legend" also has it that there was another "Reveries" junior corps that continued until the 1974 season, after which most of it's membership were absorbed by the 27th Lancers. If there are any Reveries, or Lancers alums out there PLEASE jump in and lend clarification to all of this. Elphaba The 1.C. Reveries, founded in 1957 by John Brown, continued on after its mgt left after '66. The I.C. Reveries secured new Mgt( Al Solombrino, Bob GIllette, Mike Sherry, Sr. and others ) after the Church dropped their sponsorship after the '66 incident . The Reveries continued on for almost another decade... retaining its mission and its traditions as a local draw for membership Drum Corps. Its untrue that " most of the Reveries " were absorbed into the 27th Lancers ( some aged out ). Quite a few did go to the 27th Lancers from the Reveries however, and right from the outset the 27th Lancers began to draw its marchers from outside of the community of Revere, as it had as it mission to become highly competitive as a Drum Corps at the national level. Once the Reveries folded in the mid 70's, after a 17 year run, their marchers went to a variety of Corps.. some to the North Star, some to 27th, some to Boston Crusaders, The Alliance, and to other local area Boston Junior Corps . Many of of them left participating in Drum Corps all together however. 27th's Corps Director, and principal Founder, George Bonfiglio was instrumental in putting together a highly competitive Drum Corps in the 27th Lancers at the national level, and was one of the principal Founders of DCI with a handful of other Corps Directors. The 27th Lancers, a highly entertaining and iconic crowd pleasing Corps, had a very good run in DCI for 14 seasons, finishing as high as 2nd place in 1980. Dwindling membership and severe financial woes however resulted in the 27th Lancers deciding to disband their Corps at the end of the '86 DCI season. So thats a brief summary. Edited October 29, 2017 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, ironlips said: In my view, drum corps has always been a microcosm of the larger picture. As such, it has always had it's share of internal politics. " Theres politics in Drum Corps ? Are you sure about this ? ( haha.. just kidding ). DCI itself was founded by a handful of people that did not like the " politics " it felt was being played on them by the previous organizations it belonged too. And in more recent incarnations of it, if the G7 internal scheme within DCI was not borne out of " politics ", then I don't know what the term " politics " means anymore... haha!. . Edited October 29, 2017 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Stu said: Color (the symbol of the country which is the flag of the nation; in this case the symbol that represents the USA). Guard (a unit of armed soldiers which is designated to protect The Colors). The Color Guard is one of the most coveted positions in battle with the bearer of the Colors being the most coveted. See the movie Glory as a reference. Drum Corps has a historical connection to the military, and at one time held The Color Guard in it's proper perspective of honor for The Colors. That view morphed over time within the drum corps activity to where the true aspect of the honor of the actual Colors, and the true Color Guard, is all but forgotten. True... although DCI did not " forget " anything. There were conscious choices made to go in a different direction re. Color Guards and Flags, thats all, Stu. Edited October 29, 2017 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 On 10/26/2017 at 7:41 AM, Stu said: Many of the NFL players wanted to protest against domestic violance while in uniform, but the NFL said no just like they said no to the Cowboys desire to support the fallen Dallas officers while in uniform. Which again is the Right of the NFL to do so while the players are officially representing the NFL. Thus in the case of the kneeling the NFL is hiding behind the hypocritical guise that they cannot do anything and are protecting the players freedom of expression. The NFL monetizes the military and patriotism. The displays of patriotism at NFL games comes off as cheap and fake after I learned about how the NFL tries to make money off of the flag. But people simply eat it up, quickly forgetting that the players weren’t even a part of the NFL anthem display before games until 2009 when the NFL signed a deal with the Department of Defense and National Guard to receive millions of taxpayer dollars in exchange for patriotic displays. A sad, sad shame. The (star) players simply realized that they have a lot more power than their employer does. What coach is going to bench one of their best players over a protest? Would have to be a really dumb one. People follow teams first and foremost to see them win games, not show displays of patriotism that can just as well be kept private. That’s why you won’t see 2nd or 3rd string players participating, they have little to no power over their employer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsjazz Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 On 10/24/2017 at 2:51 PM, BRASSO said: True. Its one of the great protections ( won thru the blood of Revolution, leading then later to the Bill of Rights in the US Constitution ). The written article on the front page here of DCP makes a good commentary regarding the American Flag from a historical perspective and was quite informative ( as well as accurate, imo ) Freedom of Expression as a concept in the United States is unparaleled anywhere else in the world. No other Country permits such levels of Freedoms of Expression by its citizenry. We are most fortunate. For example, this thread topic is about the American Flag, and Freedom of Expression/. Protest. As such, it might be helpful to see where the United States fits into what it allows in terms of protest regarding the desecration of its Nations Flag by its citizenry... the ultimate symbolic representation of protest and the exercise of one's Freedom of Expression ( protest ) by the citizens of a Country. To probably no one's surprise, the United States is the only country in the world that allows a Citizen to desecrate, even burn in public, its Nation's Flag. Denmark comes close, but has not yet codified into its Laws ( as the US has ) such a lawful allowance of the public disrespect and/ or desecration of the Nation's Flag as a permissable act of " Freedom of Expression " ( or act of Protest ). For example, most counties, includiing just about all of of the Socialist Countries in the World, disallow the desecration of their Nation's Flag. All either have mandatory fines and/ or imprisonments.. ranging from a few days, to years of prison time, including in some cases, hard labor prison time for the public desecreation of the Nation's Flag. Also, death is permissable under the laws in certain non secular countries. For example, Countries in the Middle East, such as Saudi Arabia consider the desecration of the Nation's Flag as violation of Sharia ;Law ( governed by the Religion tenets of Islam ) and therefore the desecration of its considered Sacred Cloth punishable by death. Below are other countries that disallow under the laws of their country the " freedom of Expression " that permits the desecration of their Nation's Flag in public... and in a few cases, what violators can be subject too for such acts of Flag Protest; Israel... arrest and fines imposed. China.... 3 years of Prison time... Hard Labor. Germany.... arrest and Fines.... and even the mere public display of Nazi symbols of any kind are not tolerated , ( Flags, insignia's, t shirts, etc ). Violations lead to arrest, fines/ and or imprisonment. South Korea.... up to 5 years imprisonment Finland.... arrest, and fines imposed. France... 6 months prison time Italy... arrest and fines... ( some cities, " mysterious disappearance " generally ensues for violators ) Mexico.... fines/ imprisonment.. up to 6 months New Zealand.... arrest, fines Phillipines...... arrest. fines Saudi Arabia... arrest, death imposed Iran...... arrest, death imposed Soviet Union... arrest, fines ( realistically however, usually results in the" mysterious disappearance" of violators,) Portugal.... arrest, 2 years prison time. Greece... arrest, fines and/ or prison. Peru..... arrest, 4 years prison time Great Britain... arrest, warnings given 1st offense.. multiple offenses, fines. Sweden.... arrest, fines Vietnam... arrest, fines, reschooling Japan.... arrest, fines. Switzerland.... arrest, 3 years prison time, and fines imposed. Turkey.... 3 years prison time Venezuela.... arrest, unspecified prison time. Cuba.... arrest, deportation and/ or prison time Canada... arrest, warnings... Province of Quebec... prison time for multiple violations Republic of Ireland.... arrest on Disorderly Conduct charges,.. IRA flag.. arrest, fines,and/ or prison time Australia.... arrest, fines Somalia... arrest, death imposed South Africa... arrest, fines. Spain.... arrest, 30 days jail time. Austria... arrest, fines. These are but a few. As mentioned, only the United States ( 1990 Supreme Court 5-4 rulling ) permits its adult citizens to dishonor its Nation's Flag in any manner it chooses too,... up to and including the public burning of its Nation's Flag as the ultimate symbolic expression of Protest. Sorry Brasso, but this type of jingoism is offensive to many. I presume you got your information from a less than reliable or accurate source. That does not forgive your insult to many countries in your rant. Rabid nationalism nor blind pride excuses false statements about other societies, their laws or their cultures. Shame. You might want to study where these various countries rank in terms of freedoms. Many studies conducted by respected U.S. authorities - those without an agenda - put many of these countries ahead of the U.S. in freedoms, including freedom of expression and speech. You may also want to take a look at the charters and constitutions of the countries which are your G7, G20, and NATO allies. Of course, some of these countries had or have outdated laws still on the books, many of which have been declared void by various higher courts. Finally, look around your city and look at the involvement of government in everything - size of curbs, width and location of roads, welfare payments, subsidized housing, fire and police, school standards, surveillance, use of private property, how businesses operate, build and market their products, etc. Is the U.S. more or less socialist than some of the "Socialist Countries" ? Your discussion has nothing to do with the topic nor should it appear in a drum corps forum. That you have used this form to insult many of the nationalities from which drum corps fans or members are drawn is inappropriate. Some response was warranted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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