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Good bye to this forum.  Indeed drum corps as I knew it died.  All that is left is the show corps  comprised of the music and dance majors.  Gone are the local corps with local kids making music and having a good time.  No auditions, just wanting to belong.  Just take a look at the face book pages of the drum corp of the golden era and the 60s.  There were hundreds, if not thousands of corps.  From small to large.  All enjoying the drum corps experience.  It is all gone.  Why, I am not sure.  But, the sense off community is gone.  Being a part of the community lost.  The Golden era has died.  My it rest in peace.

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3 hours ago, Grenadier said:

Good bye to this forum.  Indeed drum corps as I knew it died.  All that is left is the show corps  comprised of the music and dance majors.  Gone are the local corps with local kids making music and having a good time.  No auditions, just wanting to belong.  Just take a look at the face book pages of the drum corp of the golden era and the 60s.  There were hundreds, if not thousands of corps.  From small to large.  All enjoying the drum corps experience.  It is all gone.  Why, I am not sure.  But, the sense off community is gone.  Being a part of the community lost.  The Golden era has died.  My it rest in peace.

Gone are many .things non drum corps from the 60s.....why?....ITS 2017

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bye

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It's always these guys isn't it? The ones that feel like they need to come in and crap on everyone else's Corn Flakes?

If I decide tomorrow I'm going to stop eating at McDonalds, I don't go stand outside the restaurant and tell everyone, and reminisce about how it was different 50 dayum YEARS AGO.

I just kind of... stop going. People who want to enjoy a tasty Filet O'Fish can still do it without me standing at the door telling them how stupid they are for liking that sandwich.

And newsflash - there wasn't a Golden Era. Those kind of comments are the pinnacle of ignorance.

Edited by Lead
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4 hours ago, Lead said:

It's always these guys isn't it? The ones that feel like they need to come in and crap on everyone else's Corn Flakes?

If I decide tomorrow I'm going to stop eating at McDonalds, I don't go stand outside the restaurant and tell everyone, and reminisce about how it was different 50 dayum YEARS AGO.

I just kind of... stop going. People who want to enjoy a tasty Filet O'Fish can still do it without me standing at the door telling them how stupid they are for liking that sandwich.

And newsflash - there wasn't a Golden Era. Those kind of comments are the pinnacle of ignorance.

Umm, McDonald's has changed a lot since 1940 when it was founded. Became a Hamburger stand in 1948. The arches and franchising didn't come until 1953. Let me fill you in on the Filet-o-fish. It didn't show up until 1962 and didn't reach nationwide status on menus until 1965, 12 years after the shift to the franchising. Like Drum corps, McDonald's has also evolved to be relevant and to remain relevant in their activity- like the surviving corps have also needed to do.


Frankly, I got sick of the comments like this on the Cab's show this year on YouTube. Thoroughly sick and disgusted, and I'm unmasking a full broadside. This from a guy who marched and did the Flag Presentations, concert numbers, and played on and owns a piston rotor G Bugle. Mmmkay?

 

Yeah, the Cabs should do what you want and do that kind of show instead of what they did do this season, which I thought was a pretty brilliant and marvelous program. Not according to the rather simple-minded posters on YouTube.... If they were lucky, performance numbers on the sheets with a late-70's presentational style show might push them into the 9-10 slot and everyone would still chuckle because they'd be a curiosity and to be frank, looked at as a joke by everyone in the activity. They'd be irrelevant. A joke. They likely couldn't recruit enough people to perform there. People would go elsewhere because they'd be competitive and actually, heaven forbid, learning new skills and being challenged. Things evolved to it. When an activity is competitive, people look for the edge and drive it forward. Ironically, most corps have been successful when they find an innovative edge and push things forward- but no, most of the negative posters have rather selective memories about such things. They forget a certain corps won in 1968 because they had certain staff members who were very forward thinking in terms of arrangement and design and pushed the activity forward in certain ways which enabled their corps to win and be relevant.

 

I can also readily think of two DCA Corps that have are in trouble or have shut down recently because they've had trouble finding the formula to remain modern, really competitive, and relevant, or they wanted to keep doing it "Their way" regardless... and walked out on their own terms.

 

Gonna call on the Guardling to help me here on this as well, please, because I think you're more familiar with this related subject. :worthy:

 

Holley.

 

A World Class elite indoor guard who refused to stay innovative and on the edge sometime around 1980, when they lost the first big show to a guard who was far more forward-thinking and innovative (Skylarks? Quasar?), basically whined, cried, picked up their toys, and folded in protest. A great lesson to teach your kids. When people move the target and re-define the activity, cry and quit instead of trying to adapt and be relevant.

 

"There wasn't a "Golden Era"? Really? Usually that's what the 50's and 60's are referred to with several hundred local corps in existence and some legendary musicians, designers, and arrangers that drove the activity forward and established the first great paradigms for the activity. The shoe fits to me. Why not use the term?

 

Am I crapping on Corn Flakes? No. Prolly more like being a heretic and pouring chocolate milk on them. Not bad if you try it.

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21 hours ago, Grenadier said:

Good bye to this forum.  Indeed drum corps as I knew it died.  All that is left is the show corps  comprised of the music and dance majors.  Gone are the local corps with local kids making music and having a good time.  No auditions, just wanting to belong.  Just take a look at the face book pages of the drum corp of the golden era and the 60s.  There were hundreds, if not thousands of corps.  From small to large.  All enjoying the drum corps experience.  It is all gone.  Why, I am not sure.  But, the sense off community is gone.  Being a part of the community lost.  The Golden era has died.  My it rest in peace.

I am sorry that you feel this way.  I started marching in '63 and haven't really stopped since.  I am glad that "drum corps" has evolved.  I am glad that "local" and "community" now mean "global" due to the wonderful evolution of the "telegraph and phone".   

Although I marched with one of the top DCA corps in the '60s and 70s, which pushed the boundaries of what could be done and what was allowed,  I am really glad that those efforts and that creativity became today's equally creative drum corps.  Today is the "golden era" and all the future will be the golden age, i.e. "The Golden era has died, long live the Golden era".

Respectfully, Bob P.

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59 minutes ago, BigW said:

Umm, McDonald's has changed a lot since 1940 when it was founded. Became a Hamburger stand in 1948. The arches and franchising didn't come until 1953. Let me fill you in on the Filet-o-fish. It didn't show up until 1962 and didn't reach nationwide status on menus until 1965, 12 years after the shift to the franchising. Like Drum corps, McDonald's has also evolved to be relevant and to remain relevant in their activity- like the surviving corps have also needed to do.


Frankly, I got sick of the comments like this on the Cab's show this year on YouTube. Thoroughly sick and disgusted, and I'm unmasking a full broadside. This from a guy who marched and did the Flag Presentations, concert numbers, and played on and owns a piston rotor G Bugle. Mmmkay?

 

Yeah, the Cabs should do what you want and do that kind of show instead of what they did do this season, which I thought was a pretty brilliant and marvelous program. Not according to the rather simple-minded posters on YouTube.... If they were lucky, performance numbers on the sheets with a late-70's presentational style show might push them into the 9-10 slot and everyone would still chuckle because they'd be a curiosity and to be frank, looked at as a joke by everyone in the activity. They'd be irrelevant. A joke. They likely couldn't recruit enough people to perform there. People would go elsewhere because they'd be competitive and actually, heaven forbid, learning new skills and being challenged. Things evolved to it. When an activity is competitive, people look for the edge and drive it forward. Ironically, most corps have been successful when they find an innovative edge and push things forward- but no, most of the negative posters have rather selective memories about such things. They forget a certain corps won in 1968 because they had certain staff members who were very forward thinking in terms of arrangement and design and pushed the activity forward in certain ways which enabled their corps to win and be relevant.

 

I can also readily think of two DCA Corps that have are in trouble or have shut down recently because they've had trouble finding the formula to remain modern, really competitive, and relevant, or they wanted to keep doing it "Their way" regardless... and walked out on their own terms.

 

Gonna call on the Guardling to help me here on this as well, please, because I think you're more familiar with this related subject. :worthy:

 

Holley.

 

A World Class elite indoor guard who refused to stay innovative and on the edge sometime around 1980, when they lost the first big show to a guard who was far more forward-thinking and innovative (Skylarks? Quasar?), basically whined, cried, picked up their toys, and folded in protest. A great lesson to teach your kids. When people move the target and re-define the activity, cry and quit instead of trying to adapt and be relevant.

 

"There wasn't a "Golden Era"? Really? Usually that's what the 50's and 60's are referred to with several hundred local corps in existence and some legendary musicians, designers, and arrangers that drove the activity forward and established the first great paradigms for the activity. The shoe fits to me. Why not use the term?

 

Am I crapping on Corn Flakes? No. Prolly more like being a heretic and pouring chocolate milk on them. Not bad if you try it.

Thanks Big W. ( I think) ..lol

You are 100% right. And yes it was Holley Hawks taught by Vince M. If I remember correctly ( long time ago) they had a hissie fit after a prelim's for not winning and picked up their toys and left. Ironically  years later some of the same people did Bishop Kerney HS and introduced many new innovations into the guard world. They were winning a lot in HS World class then feeling they needed to compete against World Class independent they did so and placed very well BUT not well enough I guess so toys got picked up again..lol

People tend to forget things are the way they are today because of the past. WE all contributed to today and that's a good thing. Things do not happen over night. There are many reasons corps or things in life move forward because if one does not move forward they stay still or revert back. We do not have to like or agree with some changes BUT if not for people ( who we all have been at one time ) to think out of the status quo I know , not speculate that we would not have an activity today..jmo

Edited by GUARDLING
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The problem I have with designating any time period an "era" of drum corps.... golden era, whatever... is who decides when the era began, and when did it end?  LOL

Let's say someone declares the "golden era of drum corps" as being from 1960 to 1975.  Does that mean drum corps was not worth watching up until 1959, and from 1976 on? Quite a change in one year, on either side. :tongue:

Seriously.... I'm not saying there  haven't been time periods of great change in the activity. Of course there have been. Just not sure I personally would use the "era" label. Semantics, perhaps. 

I also find it interesting that some of the folks who marched during those times of significant changes in drum corps... like the 1960s and into the '70s, with the advent of contra-bass and mellophone horns, the valve/rotor configuration replacing the valve/slip slide as the standard for drum corps brass,  tuned bass drums and other tonal percussion, use of keyboard instruments,  females being added to horn lines and drum lines (and in many cases, color guards), people of color being welcomed into more corps (sadly, not all corps during those years), etc... those same folks now reject out of hand the changes of recent years. 

Edited by Fran Haring
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I know where you're coming from, Fran. Let me elaborate. The Era thing is more for historical reference and to enable people to get a handle on things.

 

Comic books use this, and actually their "Golden Age" is similar to what I described. From Wiki:

 

"an era of American comic books from the late 1930s to circa 1950. During this time, modern comic books were first published and rapidly increased in popularity. The superhero archetype was created and many well-known characters were introduced, including Superman, Batman, Captain Marvel, Captain America, and Wonder Woman."

 

Very similar to the way I described the "Golden age of Drum Corps"- expanding popularity, many firsts, many things established. People have their preferences, that's fine. Comic fans use it so they can have perspective. Corps aficionados can use it to help delineate styles and various approaches to shows and design.

 

Mel Stratton used these following terms in a clinic I attended in 1983 in regards to the competitive high school activity, and there are direct parallels to the Corps activity:

 

"Traditional", use of the college style presentation from post WW2 to about 1970 for HS competition bands. No one at that time really knew any better until individuals who were teachers who also had corps experience began to enter the HS scene around that time. When those directors and their bands began to whip everyone... it led to the next period....

 

"Presentaional" (which is basically drum corps from 1946 to about 1975-1981), which competitive bands used from around 1970 to about 1981- Linear, some curvo-linear, play loud come forward, play soft move back, Opener, Production, Concert number, Percussion feature, closer....

 

And "Eclectic", in which he described the radical visual changes and show construction changes taking place in corps and band as he delivered his clinic in 1983.

 

I'd be very curious to see if and how he'd delineate further developments since then, what he'd call them, and the descriptors he'd use. Mel was an incredibly serious thinker about such things, quantifying everything that went into the mix very carefully.

 

 

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On 10/2/2017 at 5:30 PM, Fran Haring said:

The problem I have with designating any time period an "era" of drum corps.... golden era, whatever... is who decides when the era began, and when did it end?  LOL

Let's say someone declares the "golden era of drum corps" as being from 1960 to 1975.  Does that mean drum corps was not worth watching up until 1959, and from 1976 on? Quite a change in one year, on either side. :tongue:

Seriously.... I'm not saying there  haven't been time periods of great change in the activity. Of course there have been. Just not sure I personally would use the "era" label. Semantics, perhaps. 

I also find it interesting that some of the folks who marched during those times of significant changes in drum corps... like the 1960s and into the '70s, with the advent of contra-bass and mellophone horns, the valve/rotor configuration replacing the valve/slip slide as the standard for drum corps brass,  tuned bass drums and other tonal percussion, use of keyboard instruments,  females being added to horn lines and drum lines (and in many cases, color guards), people of color being welcomed into more corps (sadly, not all corps during those years), etc... those same folks now reject out of hand the changes of recent years. 

the golden era began when it started.

 

still going

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