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Should Open Class just be World Class?


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8 minutes ago, Kamarag said:

 

Interestingly, the Open Class directors would disagree with you.

yes, I know that.

I still stand by  the position.

I will mention corps names as examples of my point. I do not intend disrespect to any of them.

But right now Open class is a hodge podge, an objective mess of various performance abilities, training levels, and travel possibilities. Les Stentors are in amongst BDB and SCVC, both corps which soundly defeated some lower end World Class units. A holdover of the G7/8 debate was whether all the corps in World Class should be in World Class based on competitive scores alone. I posit that there should be division 2 for corps like BDB, SCVC, Pioneer, 7th Regiment, Michigan Legend, Louisiana Stars. etc.

The Canadian entry from Sherbrooke, the Racine Scouts, some seasons the Raiders, etc should be the third division.

World Class directors for units such as Pacific Crest, Oregon Crusaders, and Seattle Cascades probably don't want any juggling of classes. But I ask what is fair to the kids and what is fair to the paying audience? I understand that the move from the three class to two class system had nothing to do with competitive success at that time but rather the practicalities of there being fewer corps. I don't believe that it currently is a system of integrity when divided solely between corps that tour a lot and corps that tour not as much. A greater education value needs to be posited for the kids, the audience, the judges; not just the egos of the corps directors in World Class or Open Class.

I would prefer a system of Premier Class, National Class, and training class. One size does not fit all.

 

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3 hours ago, MikeN said:

(And while I think BD/VC's monopoly on the top 2 is ultimately bad for Open Class, I certainly don't think it's bad enough to warrant any changes to the system.  At some point, someone will just have to beat them on the field.)

Just using your post as a launching point for a quick recap:

The Blue Devils B / Vanguard Cadets dominance of Open Class has now lasted ten years, with both corps finishing in the top three, and usually the top two, in every year but one since 2008.

Prior to that, both those corps finished out of medal contention as often as not.

In 2008, third place went to Jersey Surf. In 2009, third place went to Citations.

In 2010, SCVC didn't travel to championships. Oregon Crusaders finished second and Spartans finished third.

In 2011, OC finished second with SCVC third.

In 2012, OC won with BDB in second and SCVC third.

Third place went to Genesis in 2013 and 2014, Spartans in 2015, and Legends in 2016 and 2017. (In 2014 and 2015, Genesis had finished fourth and would overtake the Open third place corps in World semifinals.)

Citations have folded. Surf, OC, and Genesis have moved to World Class. It's too soon to comment on Genesis, but in terms of competitive success (which is far from everything that matters), Surf and OC haven't seen any improvement in their standings since moving up.

Spartans has won Open a few times, but they also took a year off in the late 2000s. Legends, as we know well, encountered a major financial obstacle this summer.

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1 hour ago, xandandl said:

World Class directors for units such as Pacific Crest, Oregon Crusaders, and Seattle Cascades probably don't want any juggling of classes. But I ask what is fair to the kids and what is fair to the paying audience?

Maybe you're right, but I'm not sure the audience finds the current situation unfair. I took my older sister and her younger son to their first-ever drum corps show this summer, at Centerville. She liked two groups the most, and equally well: Cavaliers and Cascades.

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5 hours ago, Stu said:

Interestingly... the WC voting body only gave the Div II III corps the options to either combine into one OC or lose DCI show support. Of course they chose one OC. Same thing applies to the now lack of OC show payouts; the WC voting body gave the OC the options of voting to eliminate their own payouts or risk losing DCI services.

 

No, that is not how Open Class was created. 

Ultimatums from the World Class directors...that's just laughable.

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2 hours ago, Kamarag said:

 

No, that is not how Open Class was created. 

Ultimatums from the World Class directors...that's just laughable.

Only the corps within WC (former div I) are considered as being DCI Member Corps; only the Member Corps have real DCI voting power; the lower class corps can only vote on things within their classification at the discretion of DCI (the Member Corps); thus the older div II div III 'agreement' to combine into OC certainly was at the discretion of the DCI Member Corps. Sort of like my kids, they carry my name, but until they became adults they only had the choices in which I allowed them to have.

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5 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Maybe you're right, but I'm not sure the audience finds the current situation unfair. I took my older sister and her younger son to their first-ever drum corps show this summer, at Centerville. She liked two groups the most, and equally well: Cavaliers and Cascades.

They have good tastes :)

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Get rid of Open Class---many of their competitions are sparsely attended---incorporate them into DCI's regular schedule of shows.  And encourage them to put out more crowd-entertaining shows, instead of trying to impress the judges with esoteric design. 

This would also give local shows a bigger line-up of corps--too many shows are now being scheduled with just 4 or 5 corps. 

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17 minutes ago, phantombob said:

Get rid of Open Class---many of their competitions are sparsely attended---incorporate them into DCI's regular schedule of shows.  And encourage them to put out more crowd-entertaining shows, instead of trying to impress the judges with esoteric design. 

This would also give local shows a bigger line-up of corps--too many shows are now being scheduled with just 4 or 5 corps. 

From looking at the open class sheets when they were put up by DCI a couple of years ago, they certainly looked to me like they didn't encourage esoteric design, which the World Class sheets clearly did. They encouraged thoughtful and solid design that was within the ability of a less experienced team to perform, or a team with less time to get it done.

 

That being said- some groups in many aspects of the activity in "lower" classes overwrite for their programs and usually pay the piper in spades. Designing to the rubrics is what usually pays off. I'd love to arrange or collaborate in a package for the 'A ' Class for one of the regional HS circuits around me for that very reason. Keep it clean and accessible- and it would at worst do very, very well.

 

The problem with packaging open units into the big shows is this- I've heard the stories of those corps performing to empty stands before the "name" units appear. At least in the case of an all-open contest-- they know the crowd is there for them. I'd like to go to the Johnsonburg, PA open contest, but it's a bit out of the way for nearly everyone in Pennsylvania, even though it's in state, and weekdays are a bit sketchy for me. Maybe they need to find some venues closer to some larger population centers... which would not be very hard to do in Pennsylvania if you're looking for something larger than Johnsonburg with a modest but decent contest venue that would be closer to Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, Erie, NE PA, or Philly.

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2 hours ago, phantombob said:

Get rid of Open Class---many of their competitions are sparsely attended---incorporate them into DCI's regular schedule of shows.  And encourage them to put out more crowd-entertaining shows, instead of trying to impress the judges with esoteric design. 

I must have seen a different Open Class the last two years than you did.  

 

Also, one of the great things about all open class competitions, is that they are more affordable. So you can get more new people interested.

Edited by kkrepps
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