Stu Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 3 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: but is the organization that stable with two full time touring world class corps? Remember there are other organizations under the umbrella If you read my post carefully I currently like BDB and SCVC being in the OC for the purpose of making sure the other OC corps desiring to make the WC jump are able to compete at that high of a level. But as for the financial stability of BD and SCV, the last 990’s I checked indicated that both the BD and SCV organizations were operating in the black.; but have no idea if they could actually support two WC corps each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: there arent enough corps to support 2 divisions at this time. My point was that the non-WC corps can only choose to vote on the limited options given to them by the WC member Corps. They cannot vote on options outside of those dictated to them by the actual member corps. But as to your contention that there are not enough lower corps now for two lower divisions: This is sort of a moot point, but there actually are enough units if DCI had not created SoundSport but instead... a) had created an actual Regional Class RC system (east, mid, west) that was designed for those units now in SS to have rather limited touring and limited spending only within their own regions, and if a current OC corps happens to get into financial trouble like Legends did this past season they must go back to the RC for at least a year; b) have the OC based on financial stability and national touring competitive prowess; as in these corps compete nationally in the OC class with a OC class Championship, then they can also choose to compete with the WC during Finals week (which like it is now) or may get bumped back down to RC based on financial instability; and c) have the WC number capped at 20 corps where the top 20 from the previous year’s Friday Semi-Finals performances becomes the designated WC units for the next season and 21st on back during Th/Fri becomes the next season’s OC (this allows for both a merit based and financial based bump in and out of the OC and WC). And yes, there are enough units from SS, OC, and WC now engaging in DCI to do this. But like I said, it is moot. Edited October 6, 2017 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 7 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said: I believe Open and World Class use exactly the same sheets now. As they should. I marched what would now be a lower-scoring Open class Corps. We liked the fact we were on the same sheets. Esp the show (in 1985; I had aged out by then) where we were 0.5 behind Phantom in drums. & No one in any size Corps had more fun than I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Overall I believe Open Class works well and serves the needs of the corps partipating in that division. For corps such as Spartans, 7th Regiment, Gold, and Shadow, OC offers competitive and touring opportunities. For corps that aspire to WC, OC gives them to the opportunity to grow. Maybe things should be tweaked a bit. OC corps should paid for performing, which I believe is the case at some shows in Massachusetts and New Jersey. Perhaps more can be done to attract crowds. There is an Open Class show in mid-July that has been held in Manchester, NH though this year was held in Everett, MA to celebrate the city's 150th. To grow the crowds there has been outreach to local schools, alumni corps have performed, and food trucks have been available for refreshments which has attracted a different crowd (I never knew foodies followed the trucks around). Having different divisions as has been suggested and that could work too, but I see no need to merge the two divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 4 hours ago, Stu said: My point was that the non-WC corps can only choose to vote on the limited options given to them by the WC member Corps. They cannot vote on options outside of those dictated to them by the actual member corps. But as to your contention that there are not enough lower corps now for two lower divisions: This is sort of a moot point, but there actually are enough units if DCI had not created SoundSport but instead... a) had created an actual Regional Class RC system (east, mid, west) that was designed for those units now in SS to have rather limited touring and limited spending only within their own regions, and if a current OC corps happens to get into financial trouble like Legends did this past season they must go back to the RC for at least a year; b) have the OC based on financial stability and national touring competitive prowess; as in these corps compete nationally in the OC class with a OC class Championship, then they can also choose to compete with the WC during Finals week (which like it is now) or may get bumped back down to RC based on financial instability; and c) have the WC number capped at 20 corps where the top 20 from the previous year’s Friday Semi-Finals performances becomes the designated WC units for the next season and 21st on back during Th/Fri becomes the next season’s OC (this allows for both a merit based and financial based bump in and out of the OC and WC). And yes, there are enough units from SS, OC, and WC now engaging in DCI to do this. But like I said, it is moot. OC controls a lot of their own destiny. it was their choice togo back on the World Class sheets. You seem to project that Wc gives them their marching orders, and they actually don't. OC's pay structure was set up by OC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 23 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: OC controls a lot of their own destiny. it was their choice togo back on the World Class sheets. You seem to project that Wc gives them their marching orders, and they actually don't. OC's pay structure was set up by OC. I did not say marching orders; but they are certainly at the mercy of the WC. Why? Because DCI is the member corps, and the member corps are only the WC corps. And while the OC can make their own decisions, their 'paramiters for choice' and 'options to choose from' are dispersed by the member corps, ie the WC corps. For example, it is true that the current OC pay structure, or lack thereof, was set up by the OC. However, their options to choose from was limited by DCI (ie the WC member corps) which were cut OC payout costs or risk losing DCI support for OC only shows. Sort of like when a dad tells a kid 'sure you can make your own choices, here are your options, sit down and be quiet or you are grounded'. Yes the kid, or OC, made their own decisions, but their options were limited by the dad, or by the WC member corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afd Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 15 hours ago, flammaster said: Open class is more for education and getting seasoned. To a smaller degree it is also for those members that just will not ever be ready for WC.BDB now has a WGI guard and i hope they gain a winter drumline as well. I love open class. RCC is their winter drum line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 4 hours ago, afd said: RCC is their winter drum line. No I am talking No. Cal. There is a line primed and ready to do it but I won't mention it until they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 I kinda miss the Div. 2/Div. 3 days, when smaller corps had a chance to win a championship in Div. 3. Corps like Mandarins, Blue Stars, Raiders, etc., made some hay back then, for sure. But I certainly understand that if there are not enough corps to flesh out two divisions, then one...OC... makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 22 hours ago, Stu said: I did not say marching orders; but they are certainly at the mercy of the WC. Why? Because DCI is the member corps, and the member corps are only the WC corps. And while the OC can make their own decisions, their 'paramiters for choice' and 'options to choose from' are dispersed by the member corps, ie the WC corps. For example, it is true that the current OC pay structure, or lack thereof, was set up by the OC. However, their options to choose from was limited by DCI (ie the WC member corps) which were cut OC payout costs or risk losing DCI support for OC only shows. Sort of like when a dad tells a kid 'sure you can make your own choices, here are your options, sit down and be quiet or you are grounded'. Yes the kid, or OC, made their own decisions, but their options were limited by the dad, or by the WC member corps. DCI is the member corps, but they also know without OC, their talent pool could be hurt. OC corps do often talk with WC directors, and the impact on OC is considered with some rules decisions. While yes, WC set up the pay they way they did, in some regions, WC shows are far more inclusive of OC corps than others are ( cough cough mid atlantic shows). In the past OC literally had no voice. thats been changing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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