Stu Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said: DCI is the member corps, but they also know without OC, their talent pool could be hurt. OC corps do often talk with WC directors, and the impact on OC is considered with some rules decisions. While yes, WC set up the pay they way they did, in some regions, WC shows are far more inclusive of OC corps than others are ( cough cough mid atlantic shows). In the past OC literally had no voice. thats been changing. It is better now, and I have a 'theory' as to possibly why; thanks in part to you! The G7 proposed to treat the other WC member corps the way the WC member corps had been treating the OC (div II III); not only as second class citizens but as just organizations needed to funnel resources into supporting their own agenda. The other WC corps began to realize how it felt to be in that situation; thus the treatment of OC has gotten better over the past few years. At least that is my theory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 8 hours ago, Stu said: It is better now, and I have a 'theory' as to possibly why; thanks in part to you! The G7 proposed to treat the other WC member corps the way the WC member corps had been treating the OC (div II III); not only as second class citizens but as just organizations needed to funnel resources into supporting their own agenda. The other WC corps began to realize how it felt to be in that situation; thus the treatment of OC has gotten better over the past few years. At least that is my theory. I can't speak authoritatively about all OC corps and their relationships with WC corps, but Boston Crusaders and Cadets seem to have a good relationship with Spartans, 7th Regiment, and Raiders. As a matter of fact 7th Regiment is now under the umbrella of Inspire Arts. Inspire Arts has helped sponsor an Open Class contest. I believe both Cadets and BAC pays OC corps to perform in shows they sponsor. Now if every Spartan, Raider, or member of 7th Regiment who moves to OC marched with Cadets or BAC, you might be able to make argument OC only supports the agenda of WC, but I think Cadets and BAC show this is not always the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 On 10/7/2017 at 10:04 AM, Tim K said: I can't speak authoritatively about all OC corps and their relationships with WC corps, but Boston Crusaders and Cadets seem to have a good relationship with Spartans, 7th Regiment, and Raiders. As a matter of fact 7th Regiment is now under the umbrella of Inspire Arts. Inspire Arts has helped sponsor an Open Class contest. I believe both Cadets and BAC pays OC corps to perform in shows they sponsor. Now if every Spartan, Raider, or member of 7th Regiment who moves to OC marched with Cadets or BAC, you might be able to make argument OC only supports the agenda of WC, but I think Cadets and BAC show this is not always the case. wasnt always this way south of New England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 On 10/7/2017 at 1:16 AM, Stu said: It is better now, and I have a 'theory' as to possibly why; thanks in part to you! The G7 proposed to treat the other WC member corps the way the WC member corps had been treating the OC (div II III); not only as second class citizens but as just organizations needed to funnel resources into supporting their own agenda. The other WC corps began to realize how it felt to be in that situation; thus the treatment of OC has gotten better over the past few years. At least that is my theory. the credit goes to the other 14/15 that stood up to the 7. Now even most major regionals let a few OC corps in....Atlanta and Minnesota even let a few DCA corps in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 On 10/4/2017 at 11:41 AM, Stu said: There are two ways I have looked at this: 1) BDB and SCVC should be placed in WC due to their financial stability and competitive prowess; ie they are way too good to be in OC; or 2) if an OC corps can hang competitively with BDB and SCVC while being financially stable, that is a litmus test in which the corps is ready for WC. At this juncture I lean toward number two. So would Blue Devils and Vanguard then receive twice the take from World Class revenues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, MikeRapp said: So would Blue Devils and Vanguard then receive twice the take from World Class revenues? Not twice because payout is dependent upon placement in the WC ranks and the number of years the corps has been in that placement bracket. But yes, they'd earn as members of WC, which is probably one of the reasons why they won't be admitted to WC**. **Disclaimer: I'd bet. Edited October 10, 2017 by garfield 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 14 hours ago, garfield said: Not twice because payout is dependent upon placement in the WC ranks and the number of years the corps has been in that placement bracket. But yes, they'd earn as members of WC, which is probably one of the reasons why they won't be admitted to WC**. **Disclaimer: I'd bet. Why should that be a problem? If a corps does the work of a world class unit, they should get world class pay regardless of who their parent organization is. This was not an issue when Crossmen were YEA! affiliated, nor when Southwind was run by the Madison organization. The voting rights would be more of a sticking point. But unless BDB or SCVC petition for promotion, that is all moot. It appears that these two corps are textbook open class programs. They take a limited tour. They have a lesser time commitment than WC. They recruit and teach a different level of applicants. And it appears that the people running these programs love what they are doing for precisely those reasons. It also appears that there is a demand for such programs, judging by how full their ranks have been in recent years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 20 hours ago, garfield said: Not twice because payout is dependent upon placement in the WC ranks and the number of years the corps has been in that placement bracket. But yes, they'd earn as members of WC, which is probably one of the reasons why they won't be admitted to WC**. **Disclaimer: I'd bet. if they applied i have no doubt that they would be accepted. But then that doesnt fulfill the corps stated mission. for example in WGI, Pulse Percussion started Pulse Open. But they got too #### good, and WGI moved them to world.....which isnt what Pulse wanted. They wanted that feeder type program. So they became Pulse Open World, aka POW Percussion. #1 example why classification based on placement is not always a good thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said: if they applied i have no doubt that they would be accepted. But then that doesnt fulfill the corps stated mission. for example in WGI, Pulse Percussion started Pulse Open. But they got too #### good, and WGI moved them to world.....which isnt what Pulse wanted. They wanted that feeder type program. So they became Pulse Open World, aka POW Percussion. #1 example why classification based on placement is not always a good thing If that bump up was not what Pulse wanted for their feeder unit then they actually failed to honor their own mission by alllowing that unit to get competitive enough in WGI Open to be bumped up to World. They knew the WGI rules prior to becoming that qualitative; they also knew if that unit scored high enough in Open it would be placed in World. Pulse allowed the unit to grow past the feeder level, they did not follow their own mission, so it was 100% right for WGI to force that bump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 37 minutes ago, Stu said: If that bump up was not what Pulse wanted for their feeder unit then they actually failed to honor their own mission by alllowing that unit to get competitive enough in WGI Open to be bumped up to World. They knew the WGI rules prior to becoming that qualitative; they also knew if that unit scored high enough in Open it would be placed in World. Pulse allowed the unit to grow past the feeder level, they did not follow their own mission, so it was 100% right for WGI to force that bump. well....this is WGI. Sometimes classifications are done to even out group sizes despite what is stated ( i say that because I know a local team moved to PSW that never should have been moved based on skills...and that same year a few A's moved to Open for the same reason, but didn't truly belong). If Pulse had refused to accept the promotion, and I'm sure they appealed, their option was to stay home. And kids paid a lot of money to join that group based on being able to go to Dayton. Refusing, and essentially shutting down, which is what they would have had to do would have killed the group and damaged the entire organization. if you followed WGI more, you'd understand why reclassification doesn't always make sense.....until you see the number of registered entries at prelims even out across the classes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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