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Should Open Class just be World Class?


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On 10/15/2017 at 9:31 AM, Stu said:

But there is no flaw in the system; you just do not like it that the higher scoring units can get bumped up to even out class numbers; that is not a flaw just something you do not like. And 'that' is whining.

there is no perfect system, be it DCI or WGI when it comes to classification. In fact there's no perfect system for anything in life. lord knows we've tried dozens of ways to keep you from going off on your tangents and nothing has worked perfectly

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On 10/15/2017 at 9:54 AM, Stu said:

I get what you are saying; you do not like the things you do not like; but that does not make those things flaws; just part of the system you do not like. Big difference.

did i say i didnt like it? No. I just pointed out a flaw in the system. Just like the DCI model of financials only has some flaws. But I didnt say i do or dont like that. you projecting your thoughts on what I type is the biggest issue I see here and most other places you post in

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3 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

there is no perfect system, be it DCI or WGI when it comes to classification. In fact there's no perfect system for anything in life. lord knows we've tried dozens of ways to keep you from going off on your tangents and nothing has worked perfectly

There are no perfect systems, but the imperfections typically arise as compromises between opinions on what the rules should be. There are those who disagree with you concerning the various rules of DCI and WGI; and DCP for that matter. But that neither makes the rules themselves flawed nor the people's views of the rules flawed; it does, however, make the system as a whole imperfect.

Edited by Stu
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2 hours ago, Stu said:

There are no perfect systems, but the imperfections typically arise as compromises between opinions on what the rules should be. There are those who disagree with you concerning the various rules of DCI and WGI; and DCP for that matter. But that neither makes the rules themselves flawed nor the people's views of the rules flawed; it does, however, make the system as a whole imperfect.

if you had said that 5 pages ago, there'd have been no argument

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 ' Having an Open Class.. separate from World Class... makes sense as it accommodates perfectly those Corps that stay within their resources, and for those Corps to operate in an environment that is conducive to what they perceive as their primary mission ( distinct as it is from the World Class Division Corps ). Plus, quite a few of the Open Class Division Corps are in far better financial shape and stability than some of the World Class Division Corps are currently.  Many of these Open Class corps operate smartly within their means, thus in many cases being able to serve the needs of youth in some cases for far longer than many of the former World Class Division Corps that are now but a distant memory and as a regrettable result no longer serve ANY youth of any levels of ability. So no, lets not tinker with whats not broken. The Open Class Corps have found themselves a Division that for many of them fits their budgets, goals, needs, and mission just fine.

Edited by BRASSO
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On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 11:49 PM, Jeff Ream said:

at the time, the goal was for it to be a feeder of Pulse. Since then they've adjusted the mission and focus of the group.

The idea that they were forced to adjust the "mission and focus" of the group seems wrong.

That said, I'm guessing WGI doesn't exactly have the same touring requirements that DCI does, so I'm also guessing the financial impact of forcing a winter guard or drumline up a class doesn't carry quite the bottom-line impact that DCI would.

Mike

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4 hours ago, BRASSO said:

 ' Having an Open Class.. separate from World Class... makes sense as it accommodates perfectly those Corps that stay within their resources, and for those Corps to operate in an environment that is conducive to what they perceive as their primary mission ( distinct as it is from the World Class Division Corps ). Plus, quite a few of the Open Class Division Corps are in far better financial shape and stability than some of the World Class Division Corps are currently.  Many of these Open Class corps operate smartly within their means, thus in many cases being able to serve the needs of youth in some cases for far longer than many of the former World Class Division Corps that are now but a distant memory and as a regrettable result no longer serve ANY youth of any levels of ability. So no, lets not tinker with whats not broken. The Open Class Corps have found themselves a Division that for many of them fits their budgets, goals, needs, and mission just fine.

"...stay within their resources..."

I wonder: what does that mean?

 

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4 hours ago, BRASSO said:

 ' Having an Open Class.. separate from World Class... makes sense as it accommodates perfectly those Corps that stay within their resources, and for those Corps to operate in an environment that is conducive to what they perceive as their primary mission ( distinct as it is from the World Class Division Corps ). Plus, quite a few of the Open Class Division Corps are in far better financial shape and stability than some of the World Class Division Corps are currently.  Many of these Open Class corps operate smartly within their means, thus in many cases being able to serve the needs of youth in some cases for far longer than many of the former World Class Division Corps that are now but a distant memory and as a regrettable result no longer serve ANY youth of any levels of ability. So no, lets not tinker with whats not broken. The Open Class Corps have found themselves a Division that for many of them fits their budgets, goals, needs, and mission just fine.

The math starts with this reality: 150 marching members paying $3,000 in member fees equals $450,000.  In today's world of million-dollar drum corp budgets, "...staying within their means..." might mean that much plus some modest fundraising efforts and corporate donations.  Likely around $50,000 or $100,000 more, totalling $550m or $600m.  Everything greater than that likely comes from some combination of "drives" (mechanical, programatic, etc) and non-correllated business income like bingo or NFL football drumlines.

The organic nature of the activity and the kids who pay for it is around $550m or $600m.  Why are we funding million-dollar shows?  For what purpose?

Open Class is a division that's based on proving mettle.  Some may choose to stay in that class but I don't think that's what was intended, and the step to WC gets bigger and bigger every year.

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1 hour ago, garfield said:

 

Open Class is a division that's based on proving mettle.  Some may choose to stay in that class but I don't think that's what was intended,

 Then think again.

  How does one define " success " in Drum Corps ?. It all depends, I suppose. if the definition of " success " is placements and scores at the top of the heap, then we know who the successful Corps are. If the definition of " sucesss " that is utilized is " introducing large numbers of youth over the years to good music, good brass, good percussion, and teaching them discipline, teamwork, perseverence, self confidence, courage, maturity, time management skills, and a whole host of skills that are honed from Drum Corps participation and competition, then the Spartans ( Open Class ) are a huge " success " story, as they have been enriching the lives of youth in this fashion for well over half a century now. As such, they have been highly "successful " in their chosen mission, and at a level they have freely chosen and fits in every way how they intend to operate their Drum Corps. They have successfully shaped the young formative lives of thousands of participants that have come thru their ranks since the end of WW 2. Far more in  numbers too of the marchers in Drum Corps that marched in Corps that lasted a few years, then folded. So the Spartans are a huge success story as an organization for example, with  my definition which might be a bit broader here than others which limit " success " to the scores and placements that a few judges put down on pieces of paper,. Don't get me wrong. I too judge organizational success in part by scores and placements as well. But the Spartans ( and a few other Open Class corps ) are likewise " successful " operations, as they stay within their budget, within their resources to be allocated and utilized, and have successfully molded in a positive way thousands upon thousands of youth over the last half a century. And marchers are still attracted to their offerings there just as much as they were at the end of ww2. Sounds like a highly " suceessful " track record and longevity for a youth organization by any measure to me.... well, at least with my broader definition for " success " that  I personally utilize anyway. And the Spartans have no interest in moving to World Class. And why should they ? Why mess with over a half a century track record of " success " that is working as intended by both them, and the original founders of DCI itself ? There isn't... and thus, no need too, imo.

Edited by BRASSO
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