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N.E. Brigand

Do today's judges shake their heads at yesterday's judges?

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In reading an informal review on a classical music critic's blog of a recent symphony concert, I was struck by the writer's memory of his introduction to classical music circa 1970.

He notes that of the works listed at that time as "essential" in the Schwann catalog (which was (is?) a sort of standard reference guide to classical music recordings), of then-relatively recent items, a notable absence was Dmitri Shostakovich's Symphony No. 10, which the writer says is now "considered the greatest of mid-20C symphonies" (one suspects that at least some drum corps fans agree), while other works described as essential then are nearly forgotten nowadays.

(I knew of but had never listened to the work that set this writer off, Krzysztof Penderecki's Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima, but I'd never even heard before of the other then-recent work listed, Mario Davidovsky's Synchronisms--dig the first comment on one Youtube recording of that series' opening number: "Davidovsky is such a unique composer. Although his music is hideous and worthless, it's highly original in its original originality and original slant of ugliness." Did someone here write that?)

And other regular sources of the day apparently offered similar opinions: in general terms, recommending music that was ugly and difficult for listeners. It was this sort of nonsense, as the writer saw it, that led him to decide the classical music decision-makers of the time didn't know what they were talking about and to develop his own tastes, eventually leading to him becoming a professional in the field himself. Which got me to thinking:

Are there DCI judges now who think their predecessors were badly off the mark? Or what about corps staff? Anyone working for DCI or a corps now who feels his or her predecessors were foolishly leading the activity astray--and hoping to guide the activity in a better direction?

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Not the judges, but maybe the way the judging was set up?  Either way, it was a different time, alot of the credentials that we would normally expect to see in a modern judge wouldnt have been around back then.

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8 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:

 

Are there DCI judges now who think their predecessors were badly off the mark? Or what about corps staff? 

 Yes. But it works both ways too. There are former long time DCI judges, long time staffers/ show designers in Corps that are no longer involved in the activity that believe that too many of today's judges/ staffers/ show designers are " badly off the mark " now too. It happens sometimes in sports too. There are lots of former HOF basketball players, HOF Basketball Coaches that are on record stating they would never sit thru a current NBA Basketball game anymore. Its true in lots of other sports too.

Edited by BRASSO
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 We have DCI Judges TODAY that" shake their heads" at the scores their colleague judges of TODAY sometimes put down for scores as well.... I know this... others here no doubt know this as well..  So I'm not sure this topic is an appropriate " today vs. BITD " phenomena, when DCI judges sometimes have disagreed with their DCI judging colleagues scores sitting a mere few feet away from them and as recently as July/ August 2017....lol

Edited by BRASSO

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43 minutes ago, BoaDci said:

, alot of the credentials that we would normally expect to see in a modern judge wouldnt have been around back then.

 True. And it likewise should be pointed out that some current DCI judges that are judging today have a bit less qualifications/ "credentials" than many of the BITD DCI judges did back then too. That said, DCI throughout the years, on the whole, has had well qualified judges to judge these performers/ shows in competition, imo.

Edited by BRASSO
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Using critics as a reference or example is not helpful nor relevant in this discussion.  Music critics are not judges.  They critique on the work as a whole and rarely judge the performers unless the performance was really bad.  Of course drum corps judges of today have opinions about BITD performances and shows, but I doubt that they criticise the previous judges for doing what they did.

Edited by Bob P.
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2 hours ago, Bob P. said:

.  Of course drum corps judges of today have opinions about BITD performances and shows, but I doubt that they criticise the previous judges for doing what they did.

 A few of the judges that judge today in DCI were judging DCI in DCI's beginning years too... over 40 years ago. Some current DCI judges have been judging in DCI since the early 1970's (  a couple of judges even before the formation of DCI.., in the 60's). So its true, few of today's judges would publically take issue with the DCI judges from the 70's, as in some cases it was either them judging back then or their long time colleagues from back then that they remain friends with to this very day if they are still alive and kicking.

Edited by BRASSO

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A person writes a post in an informal blog about classical music; within that post are references to a defunct bankrupt company which published opinionated lists of LP recordings and the possibility that modern critics would disagree with archaic critics concerning those lists; then that post is extrapolated here on DCP to be equivocated to DCI Judges.  Yep; that is what we call a typical day on DCP!!!!

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12 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said:

 

Are there DCI judges now who think their predecessors were badly off the mark? Or what about corps staff? Anyone working for DCI or a corps now who feels his or her predecessors were foolishly leading the activity astray--and hoping to guide the activity in a better direction?

 Ask Stu. He could have the answer for you with this, and your topic question headline here for us :.. " do todays judges shake their heads at yesterday's judges ? ". He doesn't seem to like any other replies to this question of yours for us here.., just his own particular one...

Edited by BRASSO

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1 hour ago, BRASSO said:

 True. And it likewise should be pointed out that some current DCI judges that are judging today have a bit less qualifications/ "credentials" than many of the BITD DCI judges did back then too. That said, DCI throughout the years, on the whole, has had well qualified judges to judge these performers/ shows in competition, imo.

It's interesting you say this. I know some have claimed for years that dance and body movement are a part of drum corps, and believe the judges may understand precision, but in many cases they do not know how to judge dance. One person I know who has claimed this has followed drum corps for years, marched as a young woman, has instructed guards and now teaches dance, but she did not instruct at a time dance was part of most drum corps shows.

Now as I write this, I know dance folks are often detail oriented and perfectionists, and that would apply to this woman, but I do wonder as we see more and more added: electronics, the use of props, different instruments in the front ensemble, narration, vocals, etc., judges know what is good, and how the pieces come together, but do they know the intricacies of all the parts individually? 

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