Lead Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 On 10/27/2017 at 9:56 PM, Stu said: Note that use in a Marching Band Contest or a Public Performance, does not fit the criteria of use within a strict classroom student education! I would argue this. Staunchly. And I would win, in embarrassing fashion for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 4 hours ago, Lead said: I would argue this. Staunchly. And I would win, in embarrassing fashion for you. Nope, the copyright holders would win. A portion of copyrighted material used in a strict classroom/clinic setting for educational puropses only is Fair Use. Performing any portion of copyrighted material at a publicly attended contest, or a publicly attended performance, without direct permission from the copyright owner does not fit the strict Fair Use criteria. I know this as fact; because I am a composer/arranger and have an Attorney who is well-versed in Copyright Law on retainer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Stu said: Nope, the copyright holders would win. A portion of copyrighted material used in a strict classroom/clinic setting for educational puropses only is Fair Use. Performing any portion of copyrighted material at a publicly attended contest, or a publicly attended performance, without direct permission from the copyright owner does not fit the strict Fair Use criteria. ...... the " for educational purposes " purported claim put forth by any such musical group also would seemingly be nullified if the performance had a ticket purchase requirement... a portion of the the financial proceeds of which going to the performing musical group making such a " educational purposes " claim as " fair use " of the said copywrited material. As such, the musical group would be legally required to have the prior permission of the owner/ creator of the music to utilize their copywrited creation in such a public performance that has a musical group profit motive baked into the performance.The use in a classroom setting , ie a school for " educational purposes ", however would appear to have a much stronger claim, it would seem to me.... But I'm no lawyer... haha. Edited October 29, 2017 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skevinp Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 From nafme.org: Copyright: Performance Exemptions When can you perform music without worrying about copyright permission? Here are some teaching-related exemptions from what might otherwise be considered copyright infringement: (1) Face-to-face teaching activities of a nonprofit educational institution, in a classroom or similar place devoted to instruction. Playing recordings in class also falls under this category. However, this exemption does not apply to Performances by actors, singers, or instrumentalists brought in from outside the school to put on a program. Performances given for the recreation or entertainment of any part of an audience (regardless of cultural value or intellectual appeal). Performances in profit-making institutions (for-profit dance or music studios). Performances in an auditorium or stadium during a school assembly, graduation ceremony, class play, or sporting event, where the audience is not confined to the members of a particular class. Permission from the copyright owner is required for the above 4 instances. (2) Distance education activities where a musical work is performed or displayed in a transmission in an amount comparable to that typically displayed in a live classroom session. The law places the onus of copyright policy on the transmitting body or institute. To comply with this exemption, the performance must be Made by, at the direction of, or under the actual supervision of an instructor An integral part of a class session offered as a regular part of the normal teaching of a public school or accredited nonprofit educational institution Essential to the teaching content of the transmission and be made solely for and (to the extent technically feasible) limited to reception by students officially enrolled in the course For help in complying with this exemption, use the checklist in Appendix F of “U.S. Copyright Law: A Guide for Music Educators.” (3) Performances at places of worship or at a religious assembly of nondramatic literary or musical works or of dramatico-musical works of a religious nature, in the course of services. (4) Performances at a school concert—as long as no money changes hands—of nondramatic literary or musical works. No one can gain any direct or indirect commercial advantage; no fee or compensation can be paid to performers, promoters, or organizers; and no admission charge can be levied. You may ask an admission fee, but all proceeds must be used only for educational or charitable purposes. However, a copyright owner may prohibit a performance of his or her work by serving notice at least seven days before a performance (although teachers are not obligated to notify a copyright owner of an upcoming school concert). A student concert at a shopping mall is NOT exempt—the mall gains an indirect commercial advantage. NOTE: Copyright law distinguishes between dramatic and nondramatic works. Performances of musical plays (dramatic works)—whether in their entirety, condensed, or just scenes—do not fall within these exemptions—even if there is no commercial advantage to anyone. NAfME member Jay Althouse points out school performances that are not exempt from copyright infringement: Concerts by paid performers, such as rock, jazz, or country bands School dances with live bands or deejays Orchestras in residence Concerts by touring performing groups School assemblies featuring outside, paid performers Background music in school buildings 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 9 minutes ago, skevinp said: From nafme.org: Copyright: Performance Exemptions When can you perform music without worrying about copyright permission? Here are some teaching-related exemptions from what might otherwise be considered copyright infringement: (1) Face-to-face teaching activities of a nonprofit educational institution, in a classroom or similar place devoted to instruction. Playing recordings in class also falls under this category. However, this exemption does not apply to Performances by actors, singers, or instrumentalists brought in from outside the school to put on a program. Performances given for the recreation or entertainment of any part of an audience (regardless of cultural value or intellectual appeal). Performances in profit-making institutions (for-profit dance or music studios). Performances in an auditorium or stadium during a school assembly, graduation ceremony, class play, or sporting event, where the audience is not confined to the members of a particular class. Permission from the copyright owner is required for the above 4 instances. (2) Distance education activities where a musical work is performed or displayed in a transmission in an amount comparable to that typically displayed in a live classroom session. The law places the onus of copyright policy on the transmitting body or institute. To comply with this exemption, the performance must be Made by, at the direction of, or under the actual supervision of an instructor An integral part of a class session offered as a regular part of the normal teaching of a public school or accredited nonprofit educational institution Essential to the teaching content of the transmission and be made solely for and (to the extent technically feasible) limited to reception by students officially enrolled in the course For help in complying with this exemption, use the checklist in Appendix F of “U.S. Copyright Law: A Guide for Music Educators.” (3) Performances at places of worship or at a religious assembly of nondramatic literary or musical works or of dramatico-musical works of a religious nature, in the course of services. (4) Performances at a school concert—as long as no money changes hands—of nondramatic literary or musical works. No one can gain any direct or indirect commercial advantage; no fee or compensation can be paid to performers, promoters, or organizers; and no admission charge can be levied. You may ask an admission fee, but all proceeds must be used only for educational or charitable purposes. However, a copyright owner may prohibit a performance of his or her work by serving notice at least seven days before a performance (although teachers are not obligated to notify a copyright owner of an upcoming school concert). A student concert at a shopping mall is NOT exempt—the mall gains an indirect commercial advantage. NOTE: Copyright law distinguishes between dramatic and nondramatic works. Performances of musical plays (dramatic works)—whether in their entirety, condensed, or just scenes—do not fall within these exemptions—even if there is no commercial advantage to anyone. NAfME member Jay Althouse points out school performances that are not exempt from copyright infringement: Concerts by paid performers, such as rock, jazz, or country bands School dances with live bands or deejays Orchestras in residence Concerts by touring performing groups School assemblies featuring outside, paid performers Background music in school buildings In addition to this, the moment an arranger is compensated for services of arranging a copyrighted chart that also no longer falls under Fair Use; thus permission for that arrangement must be granted by the copyright holder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 7 hours ago, Lead said: I would argue this. Staunchly. And I would win, in embarrassing fashion for you. The only one embarrassed here is you. Stu and SkevinP are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 it's not going to change unless Congress would take action, and tresona pays a fortune in lobbying fees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDCorno Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 On 10/27/2017 at 2:30 PM, skevinp said: What forced the composers to sell their rights to Tresona to begin with, if it is really such a bad deal for them? Good question, though it's like anything else...it's sold as a good thing to the client. Doesn't always turn out that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 20 minutes ago, BDCorno said: Good question, though it's like anything else...it's sold as a good thing to the client. Doesn't always turn out that way. many artists personally dont understand the rights game and they want to be protected 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brassdude6171 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 This topic seems like one big smokey cloud with a huge lack of clarity, so with that, a couple questions. So it's basically a "Fan Network" of sorts for scholastic ensembles of all kind? After some above-the-surface researching, is there no way to see what you're subscribing to before subscribing? Does the $25 subscription give full access to any ensemble anywhere across the country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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