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oldcadetsop

What would happen if a corps said, f it i am going old school

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9 hours ago, jwillis35 said:

. Obviously staging, body movement, dance, and guard integration are big today.   

 No doubt about it. Once we saw the Bluecoats early in the season last year, and it was clear they did not have a top 4 Guard, their chances of repeating was just about zero. Its a shame, as the Bluecoats had an interesting, fun, creative show, and the music ( I thought ) was wonderful. The whole ethos was different and appealing from them last season... loved the bowler hats. But the fact their Guard was not a DCI top 4 Guard for 2017 meant the Bluecoats would be doomed to fall by a lot placement wise last season, and right from the getgo in June.  That said,  I did love the show/ music from the Bluecoats last season.

Edited by BRASSO
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12 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

Madison 2010. if clean, it could possibly have a stab at a finals spot.

You mean a top half of Finals spot, right? They finished 10th that year, less than half a point from Boston in 9th. Absolutely fantastic show.

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Honestly the closest we've got to a classic style show that was still very successful would be Crown 2015. All classical music, only a small flugle solo was amplified, no props littering the field, minimal use of sound effects, no narration/singing, and a killer hornline. It was a nice farewell to that 90s-00s era of DCI, but we probably won't see much like it again. 

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For one thing, Old School means different things to different people, depending on their age. If we're talking g Bugles, traditional guard, no front ensemble, you could possibly find some kids who are interested. Colonial Williamsburg has waiting lists for their fife and drum corps which is something that appeals to a certain niche, so you never know what might interest a kid. I do not think there would be throngs of kids who would be interested. Now if such a unit was formed, would it be competitive? Here is where I would say no. Most of the kids who marched in the top corps in the Old School era probably started in a feeder corps or a small local corps at 9 or 10 years old, were taught and mastered certain skill sets, and after these skills were mastered, marched in the big leagues. Kids who march today would have to unlearn certain techniques and master others which is not that easy and could grow old quickly. So an Old School corps today would probably be exhibition only and could be entertaining but not all that competitive.

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On 11/24/2017 at 9:22 PM, oldcadetsop said:

 

What if a corps,  say Cadets decided to say, screw it, we are gonna do 1987 App spring as originally done. Devils say, ya know what, we are gonna do 1982 One More Time show. Madison says 1988, bring it to us.. If perfected would these shows score with current corps.  .

  No. They wouldn't  " score well ".

 Likewise,  what would happen with the Top 3 Corps from 2017 that competed with shows " as originally done " last season with the Top 12 Corps and their shows " as originally done " in 1987, 1988, 1992 ?  Well,  If we utilize the DCI judging system in place in those years, The Top 3 DCI Corps and their shows " as originally done " from last season wouldn't " score well" , nor finish in the Top 12 in 87, 88, nor 92 either.

 That said, I like your hypothetical.

Edited by BRASSO

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On 11/24/2017 at 9:22 PM, oldcadetsop said:

Every year around this time a bunch of us FMM get together for some good bbq and beverages. WE talk about the times we marched together etc. LOL Usually a fun topic comes up as it did today.

 

What if a corps,  say Cadets decided to say, screw it, we are gonna do 1987 App spring as originally done. Devils say, ya know what, we are gonna do 1982 One More Time show. Madison says 1988, bring it to us. How would that score today????? No flash, just old school drum corps. If perfected would these shows score with current corps.  It would be interesting if a corps went this direction and just said screw it, I know it is never gonna happen, was just a fun topic that came up.

No, they would not score well. Nor, IMO, would they generate the type of reaction from current non-legacy fans you might think. 

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3 hours ago, MikeD said:

No, they would not score well. Nor, IMO, would they generate the type of reaction from current non-legacy fans you might think. 

 It works both ways... of course. Many of the so called " legacy fans " don't get much excitement with todays shows either, as I'm sure most here already know as well. But  the OP did not ask us about any of that, ie entertainment levels. The OP asked us about " scoring well " or not " scoring well ". I think we can all agree here that once we take Corps and their shows out from one judging system to another, none of the Corps, nor their shows  ( no matter the decade ) would " score well " once we change the judging system that they originally operated and performed under.

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Every time a question like this comes up I scratch my head and ask why.

No one in his right mind thinks the Green Bay Packers could succeed today by using the same schemes that won them so many championships in the 60s.  Why drum corps? I'd go so far as to say that if the Beatles were making the trip from Liverpool  for the first time today, they'd be a novelty, not a sensation.

Wear your outfit from 80s today and see what happens. You'll get some compliments. What you won't get is confirmation that 80s style can substitute for today's fashions for anything more than an instant.

HH

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On 11/24/2017 at 8:22 PM, oldcadetsop said:

Every year around this time a bunch of us FMM get together for some good bbq and beverages. WE talk about the times we marched together etc. LOL Usually a fun topic comes up as it did today.

 

What if a corps,  say Cadets decided to say, screw it, we are gonna do 1987 App spring as originally done. Devils say, ya know what, we are gonna do 1982 One More Time show. Madison says 1988, bring it to us. How would that score today????? No flash, just old school drum corps. If perfected would these shows score with current corps.  It would be interesting if a corps went this direction and just said screw it, I know it is never gonna happen, was just a fun topic that came up.

I don’t necessarily consider late ‘80’s - early ‘90’s as “old school” and not because I marched then.  Those were the years when corps were really pushing the limits as far as musical complexity, tempo and volume.  They were exciting times.  The creative staff’s really new how to get creative and optimize to create some of the most exciting and memorable shows ever.  If today’s corps “could” create to the quality of that era crowds would go crazy!  But, I don’t think they can.  Today’s creative staffs are blinded so much by technology and diversification that they are losing touch with what drum corps really is.

 

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2 hours ago, glory said:

Every time a question like this comes up I scratch my head and ask why.

No one in his right mind thinks the Green Bay Packers could succeed today by using the same schemes that won them so many championships in the 60s.  Why drum corps? 

 Good question. We've been reminded lots of times before on here that we should not compare DCI Corps with " sports " team competition, especially Pro sports ( and for host of reasons ).

 However, if we insist in comparing the NFL of "the 60's ", with the NFL of today ( insofar as DCI Drum Corps is concerned ) we should be able to agree on that the changes in Pro football from the 60's to today is exceedingly minor... VERY minor... compared with Drum Corps of " the 60's " compared to DCI Corps today.

 To follow the analogy with football of " the 60's " that you want us to make... the football is the same length, width, weight, shape the Packers of the 60's and the Packers of today utilize. The numbers of players on each side of the ball is the same. A touchdown is still 6 points. A Field Goal is still 3 points. An touchback is still 2 points,. Teams still kick off ( or receive ) the football to signal the start of the game. The Game is still 4 quarters of equal time length. Teams still have a QB under center that takes the snap of the ball. The QB of the Packers still signals the snap of the ball. Teams on offense still move the same instrument of competition ( the same shaped football ) down the field to score primarily in the same only 2 methods, ie run the football, throw the football. The football ( main instrument of competition ) is still made primarily of a pigs skin. The referees still are uniformed in striped colors the same as the 60's.  The goalposts have been moved back  a bit, but teams still gain 3 points by kicking a field goal thru the uprights on field goal attempts. The Packers still have 4 downs to go the same distance 10 yards for a 1st down. The NFL still has sideline markers with chains and poles to measure spots on the field for down and distance. I could on and on. Essentially the Packers football game they play in competition has not really fundamentally changed from the 60's to today. There are of course changes that have taken place in the game of football , but the essentials in football competition really has not changed much... ESPECIALLY compared to Drum Corps of " the 60's " and Drum Corps of today.

 Since we are comparing " the 60's " with today, insofar as Drum Corps is concerned, the very essentials of  " the sport " of Drum Corps has been altered so much that the two do not resemble the other in the least. I make no assessment of which is " better " here either. Just an observation that the " sport " competition the 60's Green Bay Packers play is fundamentally the same sport the Green Bay Packers play today. But do the Troopers, Madison Scouts, SCV, Cadets, Boston, Bluecoats, et al play the same "sport " competition today as they did in " the 60's " ? Oh heavens no.

 Comparing Drum Corps of " the 60's " with today ( utilizing your football analogy of above )... The fundamental instrument of the Drum Corps competition itself has completely changed ( unlike the game of football ). There are no instruments of competition in the brass lines from the 60's utilized in todays competition in Drum Corps at all anymore. Most are keyed differently. They do not resemble in size, shape, tubing, fingering, etc instruments of competition from the 60's. How a " team " scores in competitiion  ( unlike, and compared with football )has been completely altered in  a major way. The  'GE caption " of today bears no resemblance at all to the " GE " caption of " the 60's ".  Its very definition has been altered... and significantly.The numbers of " players " allowed on the field of competition ( unlike football ) has been fundamentally altered.  Football still has " going off the field and out of bounds " the same as the 60's. In the 60's, competitors in Drum Corps going " off the field and out of bounds " resulted in penalties. Today's Drum Corps position competitors " off the field " throughout their show, and points can be had in the competition itself by how well these " off the field " competitors performed in the competition. Unlike football, the time evaluation a  Drum Corps competitor is judged in competition is no longer the same as in " the 60" s ".  Football still has QB's, DB's, LB's, etc... but Drum Corps no longer has an " Honor Guard". Football still starts their games the same way on the field of competition. As a matter of fact, they are still required to start the games in the same manner. Drum Corps of today, rarely start the competition the same way as "the 60's ". Football  still requires headgear. Drum Corps in the '60's " required head gear. There is no requirement for head gear today. football uniforms still are fundamentally the same as in " the 60's ", ie helmut, shoulder pads, etc... Drum Corps uniforms of the 60's are unlike in every manner, uniforms of today. Dancing in Drum Corps in the 60's was impermissable and to do so was a penalty. Today, effective dance is rewarded and points to be had for your team in the competition. The allowance of props, amplification, singing, narration, dance, etc has so fundamentally altered the  Drum Corps idiom since " the 60's " that with each passing day there is a coming together in unison among older and newer generations alike that these are not " Drum & Bugle Corps " any longer, but something else altogether (  there is no consensus however on the what however, from my observations ). Everyone in America petty much agrees however that football ( American version ) is still football. For the simple reason that its changes it has approved for the game are mostly cosmetic in nature. The sport of football that the Green Bay Packers play today is fundamentally the same game of football the Green Bay Packers played back in " the 60's ". We can all agree here it seems to me that the " sport " competition of Drum & Bugle Corps from the " 60's " bares  little to no resemblance at all to today's DCI/DCA  " Drum & Bugle Corps " ( or whatever we prefer to call them now ) competitions in this " sport " by analogy and comparison.

 

 

Edited by BRASSO
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