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I agree:

Music City vs Genesis

If both keep the upward swing they will place above Cascades and Jersey Surf. Don’t count the Cascades out, though!! ;)

Edited by insideout

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With so many age outs, it’s tough to expect SCV to remain in medal contention. They will no doubt benefit from a lot of move ups from Vanguard Cadets, but to remain a medalist contender you have to have a corps dominated by destination marchers. 

Likewise, this to me is the key year for Cadets. If they don’t make a comeback, which I think is unlikely, you could see them drop to the lower half of the finalists for some time to come. They have always been one of the few destination corps for experienced marchers, and I frankly don’t see that happening anymore. There are other more compelling options now, especially with Boston establishing themselves as an east coast medalist contender. I’d be surprised if their competitive grouping doesn’t end up being with/against Phantom and Crossmen.

I’m still holding out hope that Knights finally make that next big leap forward. They will always be cutting edge musically, but will they design around a visual concept? Hopeful but not optimistic. They will remain in the second grouping until they get religion from a design and story telling standpoint. 

Bluecoats will contend for the gold, with Blue Devils and Crown. I have a sneaking suspicion Crown will emerge with their second gold medal this year. 

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2 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:

With so many age outs, it’s tough to expect SCV to remain in medal contention. They will no doubt benefit from a lot of move ups from Vanguard Cadets, but to remain a medalist contender you have to have a corps dominated by destination marchers. 

Likewise, this to me is the key year for Cadets. If they don’t make a comeback, which I think is unlikely, you could see them drop to the lower half of the finalists for some time to come. They have always been one of the few destination corps for experienced marchers, and I frankly don’t see that happening anymore. There are other more compelling options now, especially with Boston establishing themselves as an east coast medalist contender. I’d be surprised if their competitive grouping doesn’t end up being with/against Phantom and Crossmen.

I’m still holding out hope that Knights finally make that next big leap forward. They will always be cutting edge musically, but will they design around a visual concept? Hopeful but not optimistic. They will remain in the second grouping until they get religion from a design and story telling standpoint. 

Bluecoats will contend for the gold, with Blue Devils and Crown. I have a sneaking suspicion Crown will emerge with their second gold medal this year. 

they will draw from more than SCVC. They're a new destination for kids who marched elsewhere. Attaching Gaines name had to help as well. 

 

the key for Cadets now is retention and kids coming up from C2. Even Surf is seeing better retention, so that's not automatically the next stop for those kids, plus Surf has made some staff changes with local pull that should help. Kershaw IMO is an under rated talent, and his band program has won 8 in a row in TOB, and would do well anywhere. He's become a legend in NJ circles, and even into Eastern PA and Delaware. As much as I tease him about his love of Disney, the man knows his stuff. West Deptford 2015 is the most fun I've ever had judging a show.

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4 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

they will draw from more than SCVC. They're a new destination for kids who marched elsewhere. Attaching Gaines name had to help as well. 

 

the key for Cadets now is retention and kids coming up from C2. Even Surf is seeing better retention, so that's not automatically the next stop for those kids, plus Surf has made some staff changes with local pull that should help. Kershaw IMO is an under rated talent, and his band program has won 8 in a row in TOB, and would do well anywhere. He's become a legend in NJ circles, and even into Eastern PA and Delaware. As much as I tease him about his love of Disney, the man knows his stuff. West Deptford 2015 is the most fun I've ever had judging a show.

Cadets2 grads won’t put Cadets into medal contention. There are too many other elite corps now. The way DCI does scoring, it’s now almost impossible to contend for a medal with a corps that doesn’t have a huge contingent of college kids who have marched with other finalist corps. You can’t put a massively difficult show on the field in September with a bunch of high school kids, or DCA move ups. 

Crown, BD, Bluecoats, SCV and now probably Cavaliers and Boston are much more likely age out destinations than Cadets. That’s just too many open positions. It’s not like the old days, where Cadets were an almost certain medalist.

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1 hour ago, MikeRapp said:

Cadets2 grads won’t put Cadets into medal contention. There are too many other elite corps now. The way DCI does scoring, it’s now almost impossible to contend for a medal with a corps that doesn’t have a huge contingent of college kids who have marched with other finalist corps. You can’t put a massively difficult show on the field in September with a bunch of high school kids, or DCA move ups. 

Crown, BD, Bluecoats, SCV and now probably Cavaliers and Boston are much more likely age out destinations than Cadets. That’s just too many open positions. It’s not like the old days, where Cadets were an almost certain medalist.

don't underestimate the fact that C2 wants the kids taught the way the Cadets are. Same techniques and everything. And let's be honest, Cadets were never an age out destination for the most talented. Several of the championships were won with the hardest working kids on the planet, in addition to a staff with a united vision and the means to get the corps to where it ended up. In terms of pure individual talent, Cadets have never been among the leaders in DCI. It's how the team there molded the talent and had a design vision that worked. I'd be less worried about the talent of the kids than I would be of the design vision. 

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4 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

don't underestimate the fact that C2 wants the kids taught the way the Cadets are. Same techniques and everything. And let's be honest, Cadets were never an age out destination for the most talented. Several of the championships were won with the hardest working kids on the planet, in addition to a staff with a united vision and the means to get the corps to where it ended up. 

 Which suggests to me that despite SCV having one of the highest age outs in DCI last summer, the fact that Michael Gaines will be back  makes any prediction of a fall in placements for SCV in 2018 a tenuous prediction at best, imo.

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22 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

don't underestimate the fact that C2 wants the kids taught the way the Cadets are. Same techniques and everything. And let's be honest, Cadets were never an age out destination for the most talented. Several of the championships were won with the hardest working kids on the planet, in addition to a staff with a united vision and the means to get the corps to where it ended up. In terms of pure individual talent, Cadets have never been among the leaders in DCI. It's how the team there molded the talent and had a design vision that worked. I'd be less worried about the talent of the kids than I would be of the design vision. 

Times have changed. There are twice as many elite corps now. 

I definitely agree that design vision is a dominant issue in DCI. That’s quite different from the era when “faster and louder” put you in medal contention. Cadets have no chance if they continue to put shows on the field like the last few. That said, a great show concept alone doesn’t make you a medalist, as Academy proved two seasons ago. 

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On 12/29/2017 at 12:49 PM, Jeff Ream said:

In terms of pure individual talent, Cadets have never been among the leaders in DCI. It's how the team there molded the talent and had a design vision that worked. I'd be less worried about the talent of the kids than I would be of the design vision. 

Well put. Some of Cadets' best shows took all season to deliver a great vision.  The end result would exceed expectations and be more than the sum of its parts.  

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On 12/30/2017 at 11:11 AM, MikeRapp said:

Times have changed. There are twice as many elite corps now. 

I definitely agree that design vision is a dominant issue in DCI. That’s quite different from the era when “faster and louder” put you in medal contention. Cadets have no chance if they continue to put shows on the field like the last few. That said, a great show concept alone doesn’t make you a medalist, as Academy proved two seasons ago. 

loyalty to a certain uniform has been a slowly phasing out attraction for kids for years. Staff names now mean just as much to recruiting as does the corps itself. Also, let's be honest......kids and parents these days will be more likely to do some digging on the web. So with places like DCp, reddit, social media etc with the tons of "hop bashing' posts there are, factual and not, may in turn be hurting. I know Hop likes to think that all PR is good PR, but that's not always the case.While he has always had his detractors, the lack of success recently seems to have unleashed the doors of complaints and "exposes" about the inner workings of the organization. winning shuts up the dissenters ( usually). 

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