2018 Rules proposals

[Stu]

3 hours ago, mingusmonk said:

 

Human Resources doesn't go looking for people that aren't qualified and cannot meet the job description. This is for a reason. I'm in IT. If somebody can run circles around everyone as a Java programmer, that doesn't qualify them to be an enterprise Microsoft Exchange administrator. Both IT. But not nearly the same job. People with commensurate experience are hired to match a job description. And even after that, they are trained to do the exact job properly. 

 

This is what you are describing as some kind of issue. How is that a problem?  You want a different judge approach? Rewrite the sheets.

I never said securing all like-minded adjuicators was a problem; it is exactly what DCI desires. But cookie-cutter adjudicating does lead to slotting. And slotting is being discussed as a possible problem. The only way to eliminate slotting is to secure judges from different value sets; but that causes the non-cookie-cutter judges to be deemed incompetent by the same people complaining about slotting.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Stu

[soccerguy315]

if we could stop the mic-ing of the entire brass  line, and forbid any autotune shenanigans (I think there was at least one instance of this), that would be excellent.

[flugelswerebugels]

So Stu has been complaining about slotting but then sites 2008, when Devs lead through most of the year and in quarters- and semis- and then were overtaken at finals? I think the slot machine broke!

[Stu]

8 hours ago, flugelswerebugels said:

So Stu has been complaining about slotting but then sites 2008, when Devs lead through most of the year and in quarters- and semis- and then were overtaken at finals? I think the slot machine broke!

Please show where I 'complained' about slotting. All I have done is pointed out that subjective scoring of like-minded judges lends itself to slotting, and that various-minded judging lends itself to some judges being deemed incompetent. By the way, slotting is not strict to just one placement but is limited to a parameter; and 2008 is an example of parameter slotting. BD was slotted in the top 3 all season; they never we're going to fall to say 11th by Finals like what can happen to an early season 1st place team in 'objective scoring' competition.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Stu

[flugelswerebugels]

8 hours ago, Stu said:

Please show where I 'complained' about slotting. All I have done is pointed out that subjective scoring of like-minded judges lends itself to slotting, and that various-minded judging lends itself to some judges being deemed incompetent. By the way, slotting is not strict to just one placement but is limited to a parameter; and 2008 is an example of parameter slotting. BD was slotted in the top 3 all season; they never we're going to fall to say 11th by Finals like what can happen to an early season 1st place team in 'objective scoring' competition.

I get why people would like to see more movement over the course of the season. My first year in top division competition it seemed everyone beat everyone else at some point in the season, and it was kind of fun. But corps stay in their relative positions due to the competition itself, not some secret slotting sauce. 

As for the idea of objective scoring, and comparing drum corps to competitive sports, can you show me where drum corps play defense? Unlike competitive sports, drum corps can have no effect on the performance of their competitors. Hence, we're left with a subjective scoring system, just like ice skating and gymnastics. 

[Stu]

1 hour ago, flugelswerebugels said:

I get why people would like to see more movement over the course of the season. My first year in top division competition it seemed everyone beat everyone else at some point in the season, and it was kind of fun. But corps stay in their relative positions due to the competition itself, not some secret slotting sauce. 

As for the idea of objective scoring, and comparing drum corps to competitive sports, can you show me where drum corps play defense? Unlike competitive sports, drum corps can have no effect on the performance of their competitors. Hence, we're left with a subjective scoring system, just like ice skating and gymnastics. 

Boxing, unless there is a ko, is a subjective scoring competition that has a defensive component where points are given out by subjective judges; and the winner, again with the exception of a ko, is determined by this subjective points system. And as for slotting in contests like DCI and Olympic Ice Dancing, there is no 'secret sauce'. Slotting, within a placement or two, is inevitable when the subjective scoring is the sole factor in determining placement by like-minded, like-trained, and like-experienced judges.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Stu

[Jeff Ream]

On 12/14/2017 at 6:37 PM, Cadevilina Crown said:

I think he means to say slotting over the course of a single season. And yeah, from around mid-season onward, it becomes pretty abundantly clear that the judges have made up their minds on where everyone will be placed by season's end (i.e. there have been very few crazy jumps up/down the rankings over the course of weeks or even days).

i'll disagree. the last 3 years, with judges sticking to their sheet, it's made competition more intense across the board. And with the system in place for how the numbers become the number, that tenth here or there can mean everything.

[Jeff Ream]

On 12/14/2017 at 7:27 PM, Slingerland said:

Agreed. Look back on the final placement order from this past year and where those corps were at the beginning of the season. At no point was Regiment better than an 8th- 10th place corps, and at no point were Devils and SCV not the 1 and 2 corps. If PR had started their California tour not knowing what their numbers were in relation to the leaders, they would have simply forestalled the truth to July 1, which would have made no difference to their end of the year placement.

let's be honest. Phantoms offering didnt really help their argument here. Plus other corps around them improved too. At one point in the season Bloo was a top 3 corps......then SCV caught them. Cavies keep sneaking up, as did Boston. Mandarins were making a push, but fell back.

[Jeff Ream]

On 12/14/2017 at 7:40 PM, Stu said:

Let's see...

Before the G7 alliance, the Blue Devil's were promoting, "Come see us in the lot, the show before the show, and skip seeing the performances if the lower corps in the stadium." Yep.

Before the G7 alliance, the Cadets were promoting, "Come see us in the lot, the show before the show, and skip seeing the performances if the lower corps in the stadium." Yep.

Before the G7 alliance, SCV was promoting, "Come see us in the lot, the show before the show, and skip seeing the performances if the lower corps in the stadium." Yep.

Before the G7 alliance, the Cavalers were promoting, "Come see us in the lot, the show before the show, and skip seeing the performances if the lower corps in the stadium." Yep.

Before the G7 alliance, Crown was promoting, "Come see us in the lot, the show before the show, and skip seeing the performances if the lower corps in the stadium." Yep.

Before the G7 alliance, the Blueciats were promoting, "Come see us in the lot, the show before the show, and skip seeing the performances if the lower corps in the stadium." Yep.

Before the G7 alliance, Phantom Regiment was promoting, "Come see us in the lot, the show before the show, and skip seeing the performances if the lower corps in the stadium." Yep.

We're the Scouts, or Academy, or Crossmen, or Spirit, or Troopers, or Mandarins, or... promoting that either prior to it after the G7 alliance? Nope.

So tin hat or not, the seven were promoting it irrespective of the tag-name G7.

before the G7 alliance, Crown and Bloo were just barely consistent top 6 corps. 

[Jeff Ream]

On 12/14/2017 at 7:42 PM, Stu said:

Yes, I will use logic and common sense to counter; that is true (see post directly above).

let me know when you actually use them. We'll be sure to applaud