2018 Rules proposals

[cixelsyd]

18 hours ago, MikeD said:

I guess we'll just disagree. Neither his post or mine are generalities pushing one POV and saying it applies to others.. They were statements of fact. What you changed it to IS a personal opinion that is a vague generality pushing your own POV. I posted  ".... they  must want to participate in an activity that has plugged in." . Your "correction" is not a pure piece of factual information....it is your own opinion being ascribed to other people,. I did not say everyone who participates likes electronics, but if they choose to participate they are participating in an activity that has plugged in, plain and simple. Some number may not like it and still participate as you describe, while others like what they see and hear....my statement made no distinctions.

Even you are generalizing, and ascribing your opinion to other people you do not know.  Here is one example:

Quote

Again, just stating that that there are lots of people trying out for the corps, so they  must want to participate in an activity that has plugged in.

As anyone involved with a corps can tell you... some people try out, then decide not to march in drum corps.  You cannot assume they all wanted to participate.

[cixelsyd]

16 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

here i'll do a brief summarization of where DCI is since A&E first passed:

from 2004 to 2010, numbers dropped...attendance, corps, kids.....economy was also an issue at the time the numbers hit rock bottom.

since 2011, with a minor dip in 2012, numbers have continued to increase. Paying fans, corps, kids marching......

so something is obviously worked. in 2010 you had maybe what....11,000 people paid for finals? LOS is full on concert side now. Regionals keep posting huge numbers. DCi is doing better filling big stadiums day in and day out. web viewing is up, and theater attendance is up. 

if it ###### that many people off.....the numbers wouldn't be growing.

I'm not a fan of everything trotted out with the changes. in fact, i'll contend SCV's reliance on the mic'd brass ensemble hurt their brass core and cost them a title.So in some ways i do think judges punish groups for it...just not enough.

Amplification was first used in DCI in 2004, precisely when your 7 year drop started.  Interesting.

As for the recent "growth"... like I said, not enough people were alienated to permanently derail DCI.  And after 7 years, most of those who were alienated had already left.  

[Fran Haring]

3 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Amplification was first used in DCI in 2004, precisely when your 7 year drop started.  Interesting.

As for the recent "growth"... like I said, not enough people were alienated to permanently derail DCI.  And after 7 years, most of those who were alienated had already left.  

But doesn't that mean that the recent uptick in attendance, etc., is coming from folks either new to the activity, and/or folks who are fine with the current use of electronics and so forth, and/or folks who may have problems with some things (or many things) regarding electronics but have decided to stick around anyhow?

I guess what I'm saying is... perhaps there's a new audience out there, at least to a decent degree. And they're coming out to see shows, are spending money on the Fan Network (or whatever it's called these days), and are going to the movie theaters for the various DCI events shown there. 

Maybe a chunk... a small chunk or a significant one... of the "new audience" also will be driven away by the issues regarding electronics usage.  Or maybe not. None of us can predict the future with any degree of accuracy.

[MikeD]

4 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Amplification was first used in DCI in 2004, precisely when your 7 year drop started.  Interesting.

As for the recent "growth"... like I said, not enough people were alienated to permanently derail DCI.  And after 7 years, most of those who were alienated had already left.  

 

Actually, these are the attendance numbers for DCI champs for the 4 years before and after 2004,plus 2004. They were actually lower before amps were permitted.

2008	Bloomington	20534
2007	Pasadena	24309
2006	Madison	21232
2005	Foxboro	20542
2004	Denver	22047
2003	Orlando	18865
2002	Madison	20230
2001	Buffalo	16406
2000	College Pk	18423

 

Personally, I don't think there is any attendance difference either way with the approval of amps. It is just information about attendance. Other factors IMO are far more important, esp the location of the show.

Edited January 19, 2018 by MikeD

[MikeD]

4 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Even you are generalizing, and ascribing your opinion to other people you do not know.  Here is one example:

As anyone involved with a corps can tell you... some people try out, then decide not to march in drum corps.  You cannot assume they all wanted to participate.

The must want to participate, whatever their thoughts are specifically on electronics. Even trying out with no intention to actually march, just for the experience, is showing a desire to participate at some level. And....corps use electronics, so they must desire to participate. No value judgements here. Just stating facts.

 

 

[mingusmonk]

nevermind. This has been covered.

Edited January 19, 2018 by mingusmonk

[Jeff Ream]

5 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

Amplification was first used in DCI in 2004, precisely when your 7 year drop started.  Interesting.

As for the recent "growth"... like I said, not enough people were alienated to permanently derail DCI.  And after 7 years, most of those who were alienated had already left.  

yup. and it did drop. yet i dont think it was all amplification, because in year 3 of anything goes electronics, it started going back up.

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, Fran Haring said:

But doesn't that mean that the recent uptick in attendance, etc., is coming from folks either new to the activity, and/or folks who are fine with the current use of electronics and so forth, and/or folks who may have problems with some things (or many things) regarding electronics but have decided to stick around anyhow?

I guess what I'm saying is... perhaps there's a new audience out there, at least to a decent degree. And they're coming out to see shows, are spending money on the Fan Network (or whatever it's called these days), and are going to the movie theaters for the various DCI events shown there. 

Maybe a chunk... a small chunk or a significant one... of the "new audience" also will be driven away by the issues regarding electronics usage.  Or maybe not. None of us can predict the future with any degree of accuracy.

honestly...11 is when DCI truly clarified their marketing approach. Since 1972 it was all about build new, but keep the "get off my lawn crowd". in 11, they finally focused on just building new. if they could retain, fine. And short of adding woodwinds, I dont think they could change enough to drive people away en masse

[HockeyDad]

Get off my lawn crowd. Funny. I could and can never quite understand - what happens when a  corps is still run by a "get off my lawn" dino?  I guess it slowly drops in placement and relevance year after painful year. 

Edited January 19, 2018 by HockeyDad

[MikeN]

1 hour ago, MikeD said:

The must want to participate, whatever their thoughts are specifically on electronics. Even trying out with no intention to actually march, just for the experience, is showing a desire to participate at some level. And....corps use electronics, so they must desire to participate. No value judgements here. Just stating facts.

 

 

Having spent several years with boots-on-the-ground in Open Class, it's pretty obvious the overwhelming majority of the kids are fine with electronic sound effects, amps, etc.  As for miking the brass, the jury's still out on that.  I've heard a looooot of kids say they didn't like it so much last year, but are waiting to see what comes next.

Mike