Guitar1974 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 To me it boils down to the philosophical debate of what the activity and fans value. Is it the purity of an acoustic human-powered event, or an "anything goes" approach with no limits in the spirit of a Broadway show or modern pop concert? Drum corps is difficult because valid argument can be made from either perspective. I feel that the authenticity and coresponding entertainment value is diminished when machines and audio production folks take over because then anyone can be loud, or in tune, or whatever. A tiny corps with 10 horns could theoretically mic up and part everyone's hair- no big deal to sound awesome with machines and sound engineers. Like pop music- it all sounds perfect now and we all know most of them can't sing haha... But, to many people it makes no difference that machines are in control. The photoshoped image is beautiful and people enjoy looking at it even though they know it is not "real". The pop star sounds pitch-perfect and looks amazing singing really catchy tunes with huge hooks and who really cares if it is "real" or not. You can make good argument on either end and I am not sure there is a right answer. My point being from the rules standpoint is that rules that allow electronics to integrate seamlessly so the audience "doesn't even notice" just allows an increase in audio manipulation, not a restriction as many feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 16 hours ago, MikeD said: They play into my facts as I made no value judgements on what members were thinking and ascribing my thoughts on others, just stated facts that members march in corps that use electronics. I even said some might like it and some not so much. But as Jeff noted....they are spending 4K to 5K to march, so balance that alone says something. I understand electronics are here to stay. But I wish the scoring system (this is a rules thread, after all) was robust enough to tell a Corps design staff 'Dude - this electronic thing you are trying just isn't working (like the 1976 Madison Disco Show didn't work). If you want to score higher it requires some major changes to the electronics'. But, the Corps seem to be so invested in the electronics setup (due to cost? complexity? egos (gasp!!?)) that major changes during a season don't seem to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, IllianaLancerContra said: I understand electronics are here to stay. But I wish the scoring system (this is a rules thread, after all) was robust enough to tell a Corps design staff 'Dude - this electronic thing you are trying just isn't working (like the 1976 Madison Disco Show didn't work). If you want to score higher it requires some major changes to the electronics'. But, the Corps seem to be so invested in the electronics setup (due to cost? complexity? egos (gasp!!?)) that major changes during a season don't seem to happen. 1 1 corps are always told how to improve a show as well as what doesn't work. Although many think not everything on that field affects a score but it actually does to one degree or another.At least this has been my experience, whatever side I was sitting on. Edited January 20, 2018 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 21 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said: Not no one. And in my opinion, there's been a lot more bad use of amplification than good use of amplification. i'm sorta in agreement with you. there's been a lot of bad. the years 13-16 saw a lot of improvement. 17 was a step backwards 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 10 hours ago, Guitar1974 said: To me it boils down to the philosophical debate of what the activity and fans value. Is it the purity of an acoustic human-powered event, or an "anything goes" approach with no limits in the spirit of a Broadway show or modern pop concert? Drum corps is difficult because valid argument can be made from either perspective. I feel that the authenticity and coresponding entertainment value is diminished when machines and audio production folks take over because then anyone can be loud, or in tune, or whatever. A tiny corps with 10 horns could theoretically mic up and part everyone's hair- no big deal to sound awesome with machines and sound engineers. Like pop music- it all sounds perfect now and we all know most of them can't sing haha... But, to many people it makes no difference that machines are in control. The photoshoped image is beautiful and people enjoy looking at it even though they know it is not "real". The pop star sounds pitch-perfect and looks amazing singing really catchy tunes with huge hooks and who really cares if it is "real" or not. You can make good argument on either end and I am not sure there is a right answer. My point being from the rules standpoint is that rules that allow electronics to integrate seamlessly so the audience "doesn't even notice" just allows an increase in audio manipulation, not a restriction as many feel. when it comes to fans, they have one way to speak....by withholding their money. the Cesario initiatives on adjusting the sheets and encouraging corps to program less self indulgent faux inteligencia shows in favor of more fan friendly started truly paying off in 14 programatically. more competition started showing up in 11. if fans are truly that up in arms over all of the amps and electronics, they'd stopping showing up. thats what DCi will pay attention to.....less income. if people keep paying to watch/support, then they think nothing is wrong. #####ing on DCp has never once changed the direction of DCI. Leaking recaps did, but social media played a bigger role in that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 9 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said: I understand electronics are here to stay. But I wish the scoring system (this is a rules thread, after all) was robust enough to tell a Corps design staff 'Dude - this electronic thing you are trying just isn't working (like the 1976 Madison Disco Show didn't work). If you want to score higher it requires some major changes to the electronics'. But, the Corps seem to be so invested in the electronics setup (due to cost? complexity? egos (gasp!!?)) that major changes during a season don't seem to happen. the corps create the scoring system. It's like Congress giving themselves raises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 On 1/19/2018 at 3:32 PM, Jeff Ream said: ok so let me ask a simple question....if you disliked something enough, would you pay $4000-5000 to do it? No. Okay, your turn for a simple question. Does everyone who auditions for a corps decide they like it enough to stick with it and pay the $4000 to march? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) On 1/20/2018 at 11:44 PM, Jeff Ream said: when it comes to fans, they have one way to speak....by withholding their money. the Cesario initiatives on adjusting the sheets and encouraging corps to program less self indulgent faux inteligencia shows in favor of more fan friendly started truly paying off in 14 programatically. more competition started showing up in 11. if fans are truly that up in arms over all of the amps and electronics, they'd stopping showing up. thats what DCi will pay attention to.....less income. if people keep paying to watch/support, then they think nothing is wrong. #####ing on DCp has never once changed the direction of DCI. Leaking recaps did, but social media played a bigger role in that This. Exactly. If attendance is up... membership auditions are up... FloMarching subscriptions are up... theater attendance is up... etc., etc... I doubt we'll see any substantial changes. Edited January 22, 2018 by Fran Haring 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 19 hours ago, cixelsyd said: No. Okay, your turn for a simple question. Does everyone who auditions for a corps decide they like it enough to stick with it and pay the $4000 to march? I know kids that when they heard the show bailed. They didn't want to spend the time and money playing stuff they hated. I know 3 kids back when Crossmen were with YEA that refused every overture to go to Cadets, because they wanted to be in the Crossmen and play jazz. They knew they'd place lower and pass up a shot at a ring. Didn't matter, to them, Bones was the holy name they wanted to be under 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ediker Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 On 1/20/2018 at 12:46 PM, Guitar1974 said: To me it boils down to the philosophical debate of what the activity and fans value. Is it the purity of an acoustic human-powered event, or an "anything goes" approach with no limits in the spirit of a Broadway show or modern pop concert? Because of sentimentality, fans are going to support the activity (and want to see their favorite corps) long beyond the point when they feel unhappy with the activity's direction. Revenues and event attendance are important indicators, but do not show the whole picture. We are currently in a far swing toward the artistic/GE aspects of the activity, at the expense of the performance or sporting aspects. It is important for us, as fans, to find a way to communicate that we value the level of excellence/performance that the MMs are attaining as much (or more than) a given show's GE punch. We want to minimize or eliminate any electronic enhancements that interfere with our clear perception of how a unit (and each member) is executing the demands placed on them. As an audience member, seeing people deliver excellence under pressure is my whole motivation for watching any sport. The importance of artistry (in DCI) is strongly coupled to the athletic and intellectual accomplishments of the MMs. There are plenty of places to find artistry alone, and they are not as special as this activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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