Drum Corps as an example of Meaner Society?

[N.E. Brigand]

On 12/22/2017 at 11:05 AM, Jeff Ream said:

Cavies had some of the best humor done in a drum corps show since VK last year. And honestly, in a society where things like Game of Thrones and apocalyptic super hero movies are super popular, i'd say that has more of an effect on trends than anything coming out of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. 

Cavaliers in 2016 and 2017 were astonishingly prophetic. I didn't get their show this year until Finals week (someone on these forums had a post that helped me make sense of it), and I still don't care for it all that much, but it's like they knew the Weinstein deluge was coming. Absolutely incredible. Maybe the corps should change its name to the Cassandras?

[N.E. Brigand]

On 12/22/2017 at 12:44 PM, DrumManTx said:

Blue Devils - Celebratory of their past, present, and future.  Hardly dark.  But butterflies are pretty spooky up close ...

 

[N.E. Brigand]

1 hour ago, BRASSO said:

President Franklin Roosevelt ... ordered the round-up of over 120,000 Japanese- Americans in 1941 from their homes and communities and had them interned in camps for several years far from their American homes and businesses. Almost all of these Japanese- Americans were all documented, legal US Citizens at the time too. Most US Scholars and Historians today tend to hold FDR  in very high regard in retrospect as a former US President too. So please spare us that today we are somehow "meaner" than ever.

Yes, but most historians also see that as a particular blemish on FDR's record. (Not the only one. Democrats were then still the party of the segregationists, with whom the rest of the party made numerous compromises.) While U.S. history has certainly seem some presidents were were better or worse than others, even the best of them--and I would certainly include FDR in that group (but probably not JFK, unlike Cadets who in their 2014 show grouped the two men with Lincoln)--can easily have been shown to have done some pretty awful things.

Setting aside historical politics, I am struck by your line that I've quoted in bold. I remember a favorite writer of mine once pushed back on claims that modern movies were so violent that they demonstrated our culture had become particularly degraded. (I think this was in the 1970s.) What about the bear baiting and public executions in Elizabeth times, he said, which also saw the humane and incisive creations of Shakespeare, the world's greatest dramatist?

[BRASSO]

28 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said:

Yes, but most historians also see that as a particular blemish on FDR's record. (Not the only one. Democrats were then still the party of the segregationists, with whom the rest of the party made numerous compromises.) While U.S. history has certainly seem some presidents were were better or worse than others, even the best of them--and I would certainly include FDR in that group (but probably not JFK, unlike Cadets who in their 2014 show grouped the two men with Lincoln)--can easily have been shown to have done some pretty awful things.

Setting aside historical politics, I am struck by your line that I've quoted in bold. I remember a favorite writer of mine once pushed back on claims that modern movies were so violent that they demonstrated our culture had become particularly degraded. (I think this was in the 1970s.) What about the bear baiting and public executions in Elizabeth times, he said, which also saw the humane and incisive creations of Shakespeare, the world's greatest dramatist?

 Ya, history tends to look at things much dffferently than how things were assessed at the time.  For example,  President Abe Lincoln had very low public approval numbers ( North & South ) the last year of his presidency, and even before he was subsequently assassinated. Abe's Gettysburg Address was panned as " dull, uninspring " and reporters from newspapers present all said he essentially got mostly a  lukewarm reception, with little applause, from most in attendance the day his speech was delivered, then completed there in Pennsylvania. Lincoln's own written memoir's had him record that he thought his Gettyburg Address might have simply ( his words )" avoided  a total failure "... at best.  Little did he know however what later generations/ Scholars/ Historians would think of his Gettysburg Address,... and him.

Edited December 24, 2017 by BRASSO

[skevinp]

Compared to what?  Movies?  Television? Broadway?

[mjoakes]

This read like a pretty standard opinion piece. The writer has a point of view and has pulled in some cultural references to help support an assertion that society is getting meaner. Or at least that society is a bit mean. Much is debatable. But it isn't meant as a tightly argued research paper. (And it would fit comfortably in any thread on DCP.) As others have pointed out, the drum corps issue is just a jumping off point based on a personal experience.

But are drum corps shows and themes too dark or mean? Do they reflect social discord or angst? Are The Cavaliers responsible for Haiti's troubles? Good grief. I have no idea. I don't mind something dark. (My favorite film is Gallipoli, so discount my opinion on dark.) And in general, I'm willing to trust designers, writers, and program directors to do their artistic thing and let the activity trend and evolve.

I'm more concerned about the hint that the behind-the-scenes summer or members' bus experience might be less than squeaky clean and honorable. Please tell me that isn't so.

[GUARDLING]

6 hours ago, mjoakes said:

,This read like a pretty standard opinion piece. The writer has a point of view and has pulled in some cultural references to help support an assertion that society is getting meaner. Or at least that society is a bit mean. Much is debatable. But it isn't meant as a tightly argued research paper. (And it would fit comfortably in any thread on DCP.) As others have pointed out, the drum corps issue is just a jumping off point based on a personal experience.

But are drum corps shows and themes too dark or mean? Do they reflect social discord or angst? Are The Cavaliers responsible for Haiti's troubles? Good grief. I have no idea. I don't mind something dark. (My favorite film is Gallipoli, so discount my opinion on dark.) And in general, I'm willing to trust designers, writers, and program directors to do their artistic thing and let the activity trend and evolve.

I'm more concerned about the hint that the behind-the-scenes summer or members' bus experience might be less than squeaky clean and honorable. Please tell me that isn't so.

In my opinion..I will address a few things. I don't know if society is meaner now or not but I do think we have become lately a society that excuses bad behavior and in  many cases it has become the new norm. We see this on a daily basis.

Shows darker?  Maybe a bit more out there ( so to speak ) but many can call it just creative exploration. Too much depth? some could debate that. I think if we really look back there have always been those shows going very far back to the beginning of DCI where a corps took on the society issues of the day. Cadets , " NO MORE WAR " back in the early 70s, Suncoast Sound " Vietman "  etc etc...one can go on and on

AS far as bus concerns. All I will say is in ALL aspects of the tour, members are watched very carefully. Members are treated and taken care of way better then we were decades ago . This also goes for the bus experience and what may or may not be happening.  jmo

Happy Holidays to All

Edited December 25, 2017 by GUARDLING

[Liahona]

7 hours ago, mjoakes said:

This read like a pretty standard opinion piece. The writer has a point of view and has pulled in some cultural references to help support an assertion that society is getting meaner. Or at least that society is a bit mean. Much is debatable. But it isn't meant as a tightly argued research paper. (And it would fit comfortably in any thread on DCP.) As others have pointed out, the drum corps issue is just a jumping off point based on a personal experience.

But are drum corps shows and themes too dark or mean? Do they reflect social discord or angst? Are The Cavaliers responsible for Haiti's troubles? Good grief. I have no idea. I don't mind something dark. (My favorite film is Gallipoli, so discount my opinion on dark.) And in general, I'm willing to trust designers, writers, and program directors to do their artistic thing and let the activity trend and evolve.

I'm more concerned about the hint that the behind-the-scenes summer or members' bus experience might be less than squeaky clean and honorable. Please tell me that isn't so.

 

1 hour ago, GUARDLING said:

In my opinion..I will address a few things. I don't know if society is meaner now or not but I do think we have become lately a society that excuses bad behavior and in  many cases it has become the new norm. We see this on a daily basis.

Shows darker?  Maybe a bit more out there ( so to speak ) but many can call it just creative exploration. Too much depth? some could debate that. I think if we really look back there have always been those shows going very far back to the beginning of DCI where a corps took on the society issues of the day. Cadets , " NO MORE WAR " back in the early 70s, Suncoast Sound " Vietman "  etc etc...one can go on and on

AS far as bus concerns. All I will say is in ALL aspects of the tour, members are watched very carefully. Members are treated and taken care of way better then we were decades ago . This also goes for the bus experience and what may or may not be happening.  jmo

Happy Holidays to All

This writers piece begins with the premise that: "The theatrics of many of today’s corps shows lean to the dark side, and the meanness of the cultural ethos is on display with music and visual gimmicks built on our infatuation with death, survival of the fittest, sexual intrigue, the occult." Some drum corps shows may lean a certain direction as a reflection of our culture around it, but the writers premise itself seems to be flawed in that he states that "we" collectively have an "infatuation" with these sorts of themes. I disagree.

Some drum corps shows have been merely reflecting cultural values already present in our society. Some shows are reflecting the culture back on itself, sometimes in a mocking way, sometimes as a mode of giving us more self-awareness, and sometimes as a way of pushing the boundaries of what makes great art great...that is pushing us out of our comfort zone.

I argue that we are not getting "meaner" as a reflection of the artistic content that is portrayed in the marching idiom.  We are perceived to be getting meaner because instead of seeking to understand opposing point of views and to find compromise, people today seem to understand their mission to be to battle against the other side. The goal becomes to prove them wrong. Name-calling, hate speech, and general nastiness are par for the course in this type of divisive environment. Unfortunately, with the advent of Facebook and other social avenues like twitter,  it has only escalated further for people to position their opinions without any veil of sensitivity for others.

[BRASSO]

 Meanwhile, while some cynics such as that writer sit at their computers and see " meanness " in US Society, the fact is that US continues to out surpass itself as setting more and more records as the most financially giving Society ever known to mankind on Earth. The US is not remotely  close  to being neither the largest, nor the most prosperous nation on earth. But its citizenry and its businesses are the most financially benevolent contributors to needed charitable services in the world.  Rarely are these things properly reported, imo. Good deeds are rarely newsworthy. Its the crude, boorish, self absorbed, and the bitter that gets more coverage than it should re. Hollywood. Media, imo. But the research data tells us a fuller, more accurate portrayal of US Society that any anecdotal, jaded view could possibly distort, imo. ( 2 sources here, among dozens that could be cited for verification of the generosity of Americans )

 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/americans-are-the-most-generous-people-in-the-world-2015-06-16

https://givingusa.org/giving-usa-2017-total-charitable-donations-rise-to-new-high-of-390-05-billion/

Edited December 25, 2017 by BRASSO

[Lance]

i care a lot about what somebody on a site called "baptist news" thinks

anything from methodists or lutherans?