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Moving to a top 4 corp


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Is your son planning to be a professional musician, dancer, or performing arts educator?  If that's the case then he should go where the most admired instructor is.  If he is already at that corps but wants to experiment, then he should go to the corps with a renowned instructor that has a different approach.  This is his chance to experience a diversity of great instruction.  I would put loyalty second in such a case, because of the transformative difference a particular instructor can make in the career of a pro (or a budding teacher).

In any event, it sounds like your son has been pretty loyal for several years.  Whatever he chooses, he shouldn't feel guilty about it.   

On the other hand, unless he goes to BD there is always the risk of being beaten by his old corps!

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Now for perhaps a more controversial answer:

Today these units are essentially summer music schools on wheels, and operate that way.  I never heard of a college student feeling guilty because they transferred to another school.

Think drum corps are different because of the history and tradition and pride?

Then why do they audition the kids again each year, with no explicit guarantee of acceptance?  I've never heard of a corps doing this.  There is no guarantee they will accept you again, so why on Earth should the students feel guilty for not going back?

The corps themselves have created the current environment of constant upward mobility, and I guarantee the OP's son's corps will take top talent from corps 13 - 45 in a heartbeat and often does.  He should feel no more guilt than his director does when he feeds off all those lower corps.

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8 hours ago, LoveKathyG said:

If I had my way, all prospectives would be assigned to a corps by the sorting shako.  Would love to see what happens if there was more parity.  

Dam!  It's stating to snow in here again.     cloud-with-snow.png  Boy, those flakes are big!

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10 hours ago, Pete Freedman said:

... The corps themselves have created the current environment of constant upward mobility, and I guarantee the OP's son's corps will take top talent from corps 13 - 45 in a heartbeat and often does.  He should feel no more guilt than his director does when he feeds off all those lower corps.

Can't agree. Of course the higher-placing corps feed off (your term) the lower ones. But how does that kid get to camp? It's not the corps driving them. It's the kids. The top corps accept them when they apply. The top corps aren't recruiting them out of the ranks. This is not like college sports at all.

Speaking of college, your transfer reference is off. First, college transfers are a fraction of the student body. They are far more prevalent in drum corps. Second, college transfers reflect a wide range of reasons with seeking out an elite experience again a fraction. Many of the reasons for transfer are structural such as community/commuter college to the more traditional campus (which might be akin to Open/World class but not to the elite "transfer"). Some are financial. Some for love. Some are driven by changes in course of study. College transfers are often lateral and only a few are motivated by elite status (which is confirmed by the tiny percentages of transfer students at elite campuses).

What this is really about is a societal quest for credentials. It starts with travel sports. It includes honors classes. And it's on full display in drum corps. With parents driving the mania, kids think they're being deprived if they're not distinct from those who are just average or even above average. We rationalize it by saying we're getting superior instruction and pushing ourselves to be even better. The truth is most kids (and their parents) take the wrong lessons from that experience. It's a shame for all concerned.

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20 minutes ago, glory said:

   Second, college transfers reflect a wide range of reasons with seeking out an elite experience again a fraction. Many of the reasons for transfer are structural such as community/commuter college to the more traditional campus (which might be akin to Open/World class but not to the elite "transfer"). Some are financial. Some for love. Some are driven by changes in course of study. College transfers are often lateral and only a few are motivated by elite status (which is confirmed by the tiny percentages of transfer students at elite campuses).

Most of college transfers are probably not sports related, but for those that are, it's maybe done to have a better shot at making it to the pros.

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1 hour ago, glory said:

Can't agree. Of course the higher-placing corps feed off (your term) the lower ones. But how does that kid get to camp? It's not the corps driving them. It's the kids. The top corps accept them when they apply. The top corps aren't recruiting them out of the ranks. This is not like college sports at all.

Speaking of college, your transfer reference is off. First, college transfers are a fraction of the student body. They are far more prevalent in drum corps. Second, college transfers reflect a wide range of reasons with seeking out an elite experience again a fraction. Many of the reasons for transfer are structural such as community/commuter college to the more traditional campus (which might be akin to Open/World class but not to the elite "transfer"). Some are financial. Some for love. Some are driven by changes in course of study. College transfers are often lateral and only a few are motivated by elite status (which is confirmed by the tiny percentages of transfer students at elite campuses).

What this is really about is a societal quest for credentials. It starts with travel sports. It includes honors classes. And it's on full display in drum corps. With parents driving the mania, kids think they're being deprived if they're not distinct from those who are just average or even above average. We rationalize it by saying we're getting superior instruction and pushing ourselves to be even better. The truth is most kids (and their parents) take the wrong lessons from that experience. It's a shame for all concerned.

Hmmm... Can you define what you think “the right lessons” are? 

Wrt college transfers, it may not be a perfect analogy, but if you look at freshmen retention rates as an example, in almost every case, the better the school, the higher the retention. Students leave for many reasons, but in many cases students “upgrade” to a school that they didn’t get accepted to out of high school or they may realize another school has a better experience to offer. In that way I think it’s similar.

Furthermore, some kids may chase honors classes for status, some may have more intellectual curiosity, and still others may prefer the type of students they meet in harder classes. I have 4 kids that are each pursuing the path that best suits their talents, and they’re not all the same (one advanced, one not, two with a mix). 

As one example, I have a kid that marched with a corps that placed in the teens last year and is moving to a corps that has been consistently in the top 6 for a while (along with many of her friends who pursued other corps). She’s not chasing a championship, and hopes to stay at the new corps and make it her “home” (regardless of placement). In her case, that corps has been her dream for years but she needed an intermediate step to get there. 

As a result of the switch, she’s been working out and practicing more than ever, and I contend she’s a better version of herself than she would have been if she stayed. It’s true she could have stayed and pushed herself just as hard, but realistically, I don’t think she’d have pushed this hard. People are motivated differently. What worked for her isn’t best for everyone and I would have been just as proud of her and helped support her either way. 

I’m not advocating her path as the “right” path, just the one that she took. 

As for lessons, I believe in setting and pursuing goals, while improving character and virtue. 

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10 minutes ago, F15_22 said:

Hmmm... Can you define what you think “the right lessons” are? ...

First, and for the record, transfers to the elite colleges measure in the single digit percentages. It's just not analogous to drum corps.

What are the right lessons? The answer clearly isn't simple because it varies by individual. That said, the answer can be expressed by understanding what aren't the right lessons.

Consider, for instance, the undeniable truth that every corps, even the best corps, last year had its worst player, its worst marcher and its worst spinner. Fact. Ask yourself did each of them max out his or her summer? I'm not talking about medals or even fun. I'm talking best possible development and best possible impact on those around him. Now it's possible the answer is "yes," that the push he got made him better and made him an example for all. But even if that's true, it doesn't hold necessarily that his development and impact would have been diminished as a top-half talent and leader at another corps. And if the answer is no, well ... you get it. And the second worst? The third? There is a diminishing return somewhere. 

That's one of the great fallacies in this discussion. Being on the "travel team" doesn't make anyone better. Not being on the travel team doesn't make you less good. We've all seen the Wizard of Oz. Intellect, empathy and courage are the objective. The diploma, the beat and the medal are just credentials. The problem is we reverse it. Greatness isn't defined by the roster alone. And by the way in my town, none of the kids who made the travel baseball team in my son's era made the high school roster.  

Don't get me wrong. I know the virtues of an elite experience. I also know there are other routes to the same destination. I work today with some of the most brilliant minds I can imagine. They didn't all come via Columbia. Likewise, some of the best minds in the marching arts aren't the product of top drum corps programs. Some never marched at all. That says a lot about this discussion. The top six are just the top six. They're not the burning bush or Mt. Sinai. For some, they're not even the bomb.    

 

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1 hour ago, glory said:

Being on the "travel team" doesn't make anyone better. Not being on the travel team doesn't make you less good. ... And by the way in my town, none of the kids who made the travel baseball team in my son's era made the high school roster.  

Depends on how you define "better".  I'd warrant that the amount of time I put into earning my US D license made me a better coach on that travel team, and made my players better at playing the game, than the Rec Team parent who had neither a clue what he was doing nor much interest in the game at all.  I think that belief is backed up by how many of my players started for the High School varsity team as freshmen.

And I would say that the musical education my son has obtained with a finalist corps (not even looking at the intangible life lessons that went with it) is light-years beyond what he experienced his first year  with an Open Class corps), and also much stronger than what he experienced his second year with a lower World Class corps.

Throughout all my kids' sports and music careers, they have been unhappy when they weren't being pushed (by the teachers and the talent level of their teammates) to be their best.    

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