Bob P. Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Terri Schehr said: I integrated a brassline in 1972. SCV didn’t have female brass players until 1981. I thought that was their best brassline up to that time. Les Dips had female brass players as early as 1970 AND percussion players. Les Dips were percussion champs at the '73 DCA with almost half the line being female and this was when we had to carry the tymps. BTW, the female twins on the tymps went on to pursue their professional careers as percussionists. I know that this isn't point of the discussion (integrating females), but it appears that Madison has decided to go with the prevailing societal trends in including females, albeit slowly and respecting more important traditions attached to the Scouting movement. Good on them. BTW, I detested the 2017 show - not Traditional enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Bob P. said: Les Dips had female brass players as early as 1970 AND percussion players. Les Dips were percussion champs at the '73 DCA with almost half the line being female and this was when we had to carry the tymps. BTW, the female twins on the tymps went on to pursue their professional careers as percussionists. I know that this isn't point of the discussion (integrating females), but it appears that Madison has decided to go with the prevailing societal trends in including females, albeit slowly and respecting more important traditions attached to the Scouting movement. Good on them. BTW, I detested the 2017 show - not Traditional enough. I remember those tymp players well. I think a lot of teenage boys in drum corps back then were in love with them. Les Diplomates were ahead of the curve in DCA, as was my old team... Sunrisers. Sun had a female brass player in the 1960s... I believe she might have been the first one in DCA... with many more women to follow. An all-female guard in 1969, one of the first if not the first in DCA... women in the drum line, including at least two in the snare line when we were winning percussion titles nearly every year... and DCA's first female brass soloists. Not bragging here... just pointing out that some corps at all levels got there early, and others got there later. Each at their own pace. And if the Scouts open up to more women... good for them. If they don't... as a private organization, that is their choice. The world won't spin off its axis either way. Edited February 28, 2018 by Fran Haring 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Fran Haring said: I remember those tymp players well. I think a lot of teenage boys in drum corps back then were in love with them. Les Diplomates were ahead of the curve in DCA, as was my old team... Sunrisers. Sun had a female brass player in the 1960s... I believe she might have been the first one in DCA... with many more women to follow. An all-female guard in '69, one of the first if not the first in DCA... women in the drum line, including at least two in the snare line when we were winning percussion titles nearly every year... and DCA's first female brass soloists. Not bragging here... just pointing out that some corps at all levels got there early, and others got there later. Each at their own pace. And if the Scouts open up to more women... good for them. If they don't... as a private organization, that is their choice. The world won't spin off its axis either way. Ambassadors in 78...all female tom line. smoking on and off the drums ( so they say, I was 9) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob P. Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 11 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: Ambassadors in 78...all female tom line. smoking on and off the drums ( so they say, I was 9) A gentleman doesn't tell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabMaster Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 So to pull this back a bit to the topic itself, I would believe that a featured performer, female or not, or female participating in the endeavors of a primarily MM male organization, is a member of the organization simply due to the times we live in with liabilities, waivers of liability, indemnifications, MM contracts, associated MM responsibilities (tour fees, camp fees, etc.), codes of conduct, 1 of 154, and all that comes with that. The person identified as a featured performer, performing in all competitions is a member. In the eyes of the fans, alums (most anyway) the org's. administration, competitors and DCI itself, that person is a member. I'd say the Madison is dipping their toe in the pool of inclusion but it seems they may only be in up to their baby toe. Good for them and good luck to them this year. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 1 hour ago, LabMaster said: So to pull this back a bit to the topic itself, I would believe that a featured performer, female or not, or female participating in the endeavors of a primarily MM male organization, is a member of the organization simply due to the times we live in with liabilities, waivers of liability, indemnifications, MM contracts, associated MM responsibilities (tour fees, camp fees, etc.), codes of conduct, 1 of 154, and all that comes with that. The person identified as a featured performer, performing in all competitions is a member. In the eyes of the fans, alums (most anyway) the org's. administration, competitors and DCI itself, that person is a member. I'd say the Madison is dipping their toe in the pool of inclusion but it seems they may only be in up to their baby toe. Good for them and good luck to them this year. 2 How about the individual corps decides if someone is a member or not and not the public....lol.....Whatever a members status is Im sure was discussed by the member and the corps Admin. If something is (or not ) acceptable is totally up to that person. I can agree that if someone pays, invests time, travels, there for everything, there should be no reason why they wouldn't be a member BUT certainly is not my call. If it were me I would not be part of something who didn't consider me a member if I put that much into it . It could also not mean much either way to a person. Their call 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) 38 minutes ago, GUARDLING said: How about the individual corps decides if someone is a member or not and not the public....lol.....Whatever a members status is Im sure was discussed by the member and the corps Admin. If something is (or not ) acceptable is totally up to that person. I can agree that if someone pays, invests time, travels, there for everything, there should be no reason why they wouldn't be a member BUT certainly is not my call. If it were me I would not be part of something who didn't consider me a member if I put that much into it . It could also not mean much either way to a person. Their call You might have to explain this me. Of course, Madison decides what to call the young men and women on the field. Members. Guest Performers. Brothers. Madison picks the terms. Different matter whether we can, should or will discuss. It sounds as you're saying we should lay off. If so, why? If I'm mistaken in my interpretation, then apologies. It's just that I think this is worthy of discussion on two levels at least. One is what might be a momentous shift in Madison's identity as an all-male corps ... a brotherhood ... pick your description. The second is the "member" term itself, which was denied a previous female despite her integral role in Carmen and is now being accorded anew. Without respect to whether Madison should only march men, I think the respect the "member" designation assigns to this young woman is deserving of our endorsement. Madison makes the call. We do what we do on DCP: Discuss it till the tedium is too much. Edited February 28, 2018 by glory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 35 minutes ago, glory said: You might have to explain this me. Of course, Madison decides what to call the young men and women on the field. Members. Guest Performers. Brothers. Madison picks the terms. Different matter whether we can, should or will discuss. It sounds as you're saying we should lay off. If so, why? If I'm mistaken in my interpretation, then apologies. It's just that I think this is worthy of discussion on two levels at least. One is what might be a momentous shift in Madison's identity as an all-male corps ... a brotherhood ... pick your description. The second is the "member" term itself, which was denied a previous female despite her integral role in Carmen and is now being accorded anew. Without respect to whether Madison should only march men, I think the respect the "member" designation assigns to this young woman is deserving of our endorsement. Madison makes the call. We do what we do on DCP: Discuss it till the tedium is too much. 2 Well, I think what I am saying is at it is their call and that any female member past or present does it with open eyes, even if it has limits. I'm not making a judgment call as I have said if it were me I wouldn't be somewhere , work hard and not be considered a member. It seems, if it were told to them they entered knowing this and then at that point we all have a choice. Personally, I get the tradition of all-male corps or all female back in the day and why but if I'm putting that much into this activity you best call me a member. So I guess I'm not making judgments just pointing out both sides of this coin. Do we have the right to discuss this. Sure, does it matter or change anything, or should it, probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone-Tone Lord Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Anyone who pays fees and performs the show- at any corps- is a member. Claiming otherwise because she doesn't have the same thing between her legs as the other members is stupid at best, and outright misogynistic at worst (side note: interesting how the only corps that claim someone who pays fees and marches a show can somehow not be considered a full member are the all-male ones). Both Madison and Cavaliers should have fully integrated years ago anyway. The only positions in drum corps that actually require their performers to be a certain gender are some vocalist and actor spots. For any other position, there is absolutely no justifiable reason to restrict membership to only one gender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 On 2/27/2018 at 11:24 PM, Jeff Ream said: Ambassadors in 78...all female tom line. smoking on and off the drums ( so they say, I was 9) There are stories about that drumline via Westshore, the stories rival the time we ran into the Alouette's guard wearing their hotpants in Syracuse when McShane jumped off of a 7 foot stack of pallets into a pile of sawdust to try and impress them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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