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SCV vs BD? Better job at retention.


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On 2/28/2018 at 8:55 AM, Tad_MMA said:

I'm not sure that this is on topic, but I found something quite puzzling about SCV. As far back as the 70s, Vanguard was the standard for design and class. They drummed spectacularly and were rewarded for their drill design. Still the ONLY corps to appear in EVERY DCI Finals, they couldn't win High Brass until 1984, and that was a 3-way tie. Their only other Ott trophy was 1987 -- another tie. Now, that caption has been utterly dominated by a small cadre of corps: BD, Phantom, Star, Cadets, Madison and now Crown. Is there something philosophical behind this, or does SCV just not use the right people?

Footnote(s): NINE different Brass winners from 1972 through 2017.

The short answer is consistency of BD Brass Staff. Its primarily been a small collection of staff for almost 40 years, with Wayne Downey, Jack Meehan and now John Meehan carrying the tradition forwards. Crown has seen the same level of success in a shorter period as Harloffs and Klesch have been there now for around 15 years.

I think at SCV you are seeing a clear plan in place now to build the same level of success, using SCVC as a way to train the students earlier so they are ready to jump to SCV when they are old enough and musically mature enough. Early training, consistency in pedagogy and a strong retention rate are the keys to building a champion at anything in any activity. BD and Crown have been the models of this and with the recent success of SCV, I'm sure they are hoping to join that club soon!

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15 minutes ago, trumpetcam said:

 Early training, consistency in pedagogy and a strong retention rate are the keys to building a champion at anything in any activity. BD and Crown have been the models of this and with the recent success of SCV, I'm sure they are hoping to join that club soon!

Waldo is working on joining this club. 

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11 hours ago, ouooga said:

I don't know if I've heard of anyone who marched with BD (A corps) and marched somewhere else the following year.

84 BD sop John Hendrickson (La Fiesta trio) and cymbal Rob Norment aged out with 85 Madison (Rob was in the guard).

84 mello Tim Spilde also aged out with 85 Mad...but in his case, he was going BACK to Madison....he'd followed his girlfriend to BD.

 

As for BD/SCV cross-membership....more people have gone red to blue than the reverse.

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My son is in his 3rd year with SCVC’s trumpet section this year and has a camp on his birthday next month. For reference, he is 17 and began marching DC at age 12. He resides in So Cal, and I instructed him his first year. 

He auditioned for “just” SCVC (they wear color coded bracelets) at the huge joint A & Cadet Corps camp in Los Angeles in December 2017 but impressed the staff enough that he was asked to attend the January A-Corps call back camp. My understanding is he was one of five Cadet Corps asked to do so.

He traveled to Indy in January and auditioned for BStars. That was during the Weather Hell taking place, and he didn’t get to their camp until after midnight Friday Indy time. He had been traveling since 6AM and hadn’t gone to school that day. He called me from the Indy airport late Sunday night (I live in Hawaii) to report he had missed a brass spot by 1-2 spots. He had never marched Stars’ style before as his HS marching band also marches Cavaguard style since his band director is a Cavies alum from their 3-peat years. All things considered, he thought he did pretty well. To any BS alums reading this, he loved the experience.

I spoke to him last week and learned none of the SCVC folks made it. He was blown away at the talent. 

To the original poster, I marched that SCV ‘84 brass line against Sam/84 BD Sop (I did the ‘07 gig, Sam; we shot pool at the bar together) and got to hold the Ott Trophy in my hands; it was the best moment of my DC career. The second best moment was seeing Bonnie Ott-Thompson’s face in 2011 when i told her in person at a restaurant in Huntington Beach, CA what an honor it was to hold “her brother’s trophy”. She gasped, and her eyes welled up with tears. It was then I really understood. 

Edit.  Vince Noble left Madison after ‘84 and followed his sister to SCV ‘85 where he aged out marching next to me. He’s on the DVD closeup with me during the push in Tenderland. Man I miss his sense of humor. Vince, RIP. . 

Edited by TRacer
Added comments for Sam.
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On 2/28/2018 at 8:55 AM, Tad_MMA said:

I'm not sure that this is on topic, but I found something quite puzzling about SCV. As far back as the 70s, Vanguard was the standard for design and class. They drummed spectacularly and were rewarded for their drill design. Still the ONLY corps to appear in EVERY DCI Finals, they couldn't win High Brass until 1984, and that was a 3-way tie. Their only other Ott trophy was 1987 -- another tie. Now, that caption has been utterly dominated by a small cadre of corps: BD, Phantom, Star, Cadets, Madison and now Crown. Is there something philosophical behind this, or does SCV just not use the right people?

Footnote(s): NINE different Brass winners from 1972 through 2017.

I can say that if you listen carefully and critically to the late 70's iterations of Vanguard's brass section, they're rhythmically very clean, but the timbre was very top heavy, tinny, and whiny as compared to BD and Phantom's deeper and broader overall sound. When we played "Guess the corps" on the bus and someone would play a very short excerpt, they were very identifiable. A good example of that whole SCV sound was that "Black Orchid" concert number they did, I believe in 1976. Madison's, Bayonne's and arguably Two-Seven's brass sections were in many aspects better in that era.

Listening to their product now, I think they definitely should be in the conversation with BD, Crown, and Blue Coats as to who "has it". I think right now they're the best they've ever been brasswise. I don't see there being a lack of anything there right now in the present. They just have to keep doing what they're doing, establishing the excellence they have for the future, and keep getting great performers.

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On 3/3/2018 at 6:16 PM, BigW said:

I can say that if you listen carefully and critically to the late 70's iterations of Vanguard's brass section, they're rhythmically very clean, but the timbre was very top heavy, tinny, and whiny as compared to BD and Phantom's deeper and broader overall sound. When we played "Guess the corps" on the bus and someone would play a very short excerpt, they were very identifiable. A good example of that whole SCV sound was that "Black Orchid" concert number they did, I believe in 1976. Madison's, Bayonne's and arguably Two-Seven's brass sections were in many aspects better in that era.

 

I completely agree, and I would extend that to the entire decade of the 1970s.  As good as SCV was overall in that decade... a dominant corps, for sure... their brass lines from that era, for me, always had an "edgy" sound, not at the same level as the lines of the Scouts, Blue Devils, Argonne Rebels, and others. Again, my opinion here.

Now... I know SCV was playing some hellaciously tough, exposed charts, and perhaps that might have contributed to that "on the edge" sound. As a midrange player, I appreciated  how hard SCV's midrange voices had to work to play some very challenging stuff.

Edited by Fran Haring
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