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Madison Scouts survey: all male v.s. Co ed


Madison Scouts survey  

212 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the Madison Scouts remain all male or go Co ed?

    • Remain all male
      141
    • Go Co ed
      71


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3 hours ago, GetOFFmyDot said:

 

When it comes to gender issues, there are MASSIVE generational differences.  

Traditional gender roles (and to a lesser extent, even the concept of gender), mean dramatically less to younger (read: future members) than older folks (read: alumni).    

Look at how many previously gender-segregated things are no longer the "default": many colleges have coed dorms (some even coed bathrooms and rooms), fraternity/sorority numbers are at the lowest rates in history, etc....

Choosing to remain single-sex is choosing to become irrelevant.  

 

I know many will disagree, but gender (as we have known it) is rapidly changing.  

Relatedly, I really hated the all-female Phantom Regiment color guard and VERY glad they are now co-ed again.  

You bring up some good points on today's culture.  

What happens when a trans-gendered male (I think I am using the correct term) wants to join Madison?  How would that work?  Or does Madison (as well as Cavies) have a policy in place?  

Heck, for all I know, they may have had trans-gendered members for years & its no big deal.

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3 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

talent or design is really the big question. talent hasn't hurt cavies as they claw back up....design was the issue, and thats been improving annually

how little this was addressed. Cavies had a great run while being all male from the early 90's til 2012, and even in the years 12-15 when they were down for them, they still drew bodies. 

I'm a Madison fan, but their offerings during this period have not been what you call huge for recruiting, including missing finals what twice? Even in their down years during this time, Cavies were never in danger of missing finals. 

So recruiting solely because of half of the world being eliminated is a reason, it should be hurting Cavies too. I don't care what they do, but let's call a spade a spade here. Whats Cavies doing to get bodies Madison isn't?

 

 

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5 hours ago, shawn craig said:

Madison Scouts are all "Boy Scouts" (I believe I read it's a special category they all join if not already a Scout). But the " Boy Scouts" are now just the "Scouts" and i believe no longer all male. Therefore I wonder if Madison retains the "Scout" affiliation if they'll have a choice, especially  if or more likely when the issue comes up.

There's a part of me that likes the all male traditions of Madison and Cavaliers. But there's a part of me that says it's time to move on and be coed. Very mixed feelings.

The 'Boy Scouts' affiliation was, in part, so they could tap into the Boy Scout's insurance policies

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21 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

You bring up some good points on today's culture.  

What happens when a trans-gendered male (I think I am using the correct term) wants to join Madison?  How would that work?  Or does Madison (as well as Cavies) have a policy in place?  

Heck, for all I know, they may have had trans-gendered members for years & its no big deal.

Wasn’t there an article a year ago about a transgender MM who wanted to march Madison but couldn’t because the organization wouldn’t allow it?

EDIT: I found it in case anyone wants to read it again. https://medium.com/@chadwickmichael/bias-in-the-brotherhood-ee75dead4a6d

Edited by Cadevilina Crown
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2 hours ago, seen-it-all said:

It depends on whether or not the tradition is still relevant and not something that could possibly be hindering growth or even survival.

"Tradition":

The Garfield Cadets (Or "Cadets" as they are now called) were "All Male" until 1969.   The (Junior) Racine Kilties were also "All Male" until the late 1970's.  Their cross town rivals the Racine Scouts became co-ed in the late 1960's,  and the then all male Blessed Sacrament Golden Knights (as a junior corps) recruited a female color guard in 1972.  The senior Sunrisers may have been the first senior corps to have a female color guard, starting in 1969.  All of these corps had a long tradition of being "All Male" and bowed to the needs of filling their ranks with females.

I'm sure that there are a few more corps that over the years  went co-ed due to membership needs.

Elphaba

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32 minutes ago, Cadevilina Crown said:

Wasn’t there an article a year ago about a transgender MM who wanted to march Madison but couldn’t because the organization wouldn’t allow it?

EDIT: I found it in case anyone wants to read it again. https://medium.com/@chadwickmichael/bias-in-the-brotherhood-ee75dead4a6d

I just reread the article. Pretty poor on Madison’s behalf and bravo to Blue Stars for having a transgender member last year.

Based on Madison’s policy if you were a male to female transgender person you would be eligible to march (based on being a born a male!) but a female to male not so much. Something seems wrong with that don’t you think?

 

 

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19 minutes ago, DCI-86 said:

I just reread the article. Pretty poor on Madison’s behalf and bravo to Blue Stars for having a transgender member last year.

Based on Madison’s policy if you were a male to female transgender person you would be eligible to march (based on being a born a male!) but a female to male not so much. Something seems wrong with that don’t you think?

Yep.

Also, I think it's interesting that I don’t recall Madison (or any corps for that matter) responding to this article in any way, while almost every corps issued some sort of statement and/or took action after the Hopkins news broke. 

Edited by Cadevilina Crown
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Regarding Madison’s recent popularity/competitive results the things I first question are design, instruction, facilities, travel.  Which, these days, means money.  Look at Boston for what an injection of money can do.  Similarly, think back to Star.  Are the Scouts doing all they MUST to be fiscally competitive enough to produce an engaging product for ANY audience (not just alumni)?  Not all they can....all they must.  Prior to altering their all male status, the money has to be there.  Yes, having females would more easily fill spots and get dues paid.  But, as far as funding to consistently be excellent, dues are but a fraction.

With the above having been said, I support ALL groups being Co-ed.  Aside from being able to draw on the musical/artistic talents of the other 50% of the human race, there’s other aspects to look at.  Some of the toughest and most supportive members I’ve known were female.  Some of the best leaders I’ve seen were female.  It takes more than chops, spinning and dance to be a strong unit.  I’d want access to every person I could towards that end.

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38 minutes ago, elphaba01 said:

"Tradition":

The Garfield Cadets (Or "Cadets" as they are now called) were "All Male" until 1969.   The (Junior) Racine Kilties were also "All Male" until the late 1970's.  Their cross town rivals the Racine Scouts became co-ed in the late 1960's,  and the then all male Blessed Sacrament Golden Knights (as a junior corps) recruited a female color guard in 1972.  The senior Sunrisers may have been the first senior corps to have a female color guard, starting in 1969.  All of these corps had a long tradition of being "All Male" and bowed to the needs of filling their ranks with females.

I'm sure that there are a few more corps that over the years  went co-ed due to membership needs.

Elphaba

SCV was all male brass & percussion (& all female guard) until at least the mid 70's

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