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26 minutes ago, Lead said:

I'm wondering what you're trying to achieve with this post.

You show scores from past years, and use them against this year's scores, when a corps has been striving to achieve better scores in this caption. Since they now ARE, you're using their past scores to say everyone else is terrible? 

THEN - you also show this year's scores from multiple corps (from early July) and say that there's not one Box 5 score among them, when a Box 5 score = a total score of 90... so you're saying people should basically be scoring 90 in early July?

...or am I missing something here?

I'm trying to establish what people think scores mean and what they mean when they describe a corps' performance, or an aspect of that performance, as good or bad. I wasn't kidding about people saying that Crown's percussion was bad. That really happened. I thought that was ridiculous, but the time to raise the question again was in a later season, right before corps started earning Box 5 scores. (And I only made it by a few hours!) The thread title is, as already noted, deliberately provocative, so as to get people to read the content and consider the questions. But the ideas are serious (if perhaps not very important).

I mean: if Crown's percussion really was bad when they were scoring in the 18s, then these corps scoring in the 17s must be awful, no?

Once last year, I did try a variation on this theme, when I asked how the Bluecoats who scored 72.30 in the first show of 2017 would score in the 2016 Prelims. Would the Bluecoats of 6/22/17, transported back then months using my time machine, really place behind the Spartans of 8/11/16? (In other words, what are the real scores behind the scores we see?) How much objectivity can we squeeze out of this subjective activity?

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18 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

percussion isn't bad. You must remember the judge is back on the field all the time now, every show, and there's no upstairs percussion judge. year to year scores mean little, and Crown over the last 2 years has improved a ton! If anything, books are getting ballsier, and sometimes that takes a little longer to clean....but percussion isn't bad by any means this year

One of the best seasons for percussion enthusiasts in a while for sure. The different styles of writing are much appreciated as well as the difficulty demands. I’m still amazed how anyone can delineate a tenth of a point between one ensemble from another. 

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  Many People say the Blue Devils are " bad " in.... fill in the blank... every year, and for decades too. Is it overstating things a bit much when they say this ? Of course. But do we then go into contemplative and deep thinking as to why they think and say this ? Not yet.' Don't recall us being asked why people say and think what they do regarding BD being " bad " in this or that, that is seen or heard on the field from them. So some people perhaps say something or other that does not make much sense with some Corps. This is somehow new ? And is unique in this phenomenon to just one DCI Drum Corps ? Carolina Crown ?  and its Percussion playing opinions expressed in some quarters from a few years back ?  In 2014 or whenever ?   Frankly,  why do I feel more of a yawn coming on ?... lol!  People say things all the time re. something or other in Drum Corps that doesn't  make much sense. We don't have to go back several years to find it with something or other regarding just one Corps, and just one section of that Corps, either, imo. If 24 hours goes by and some poster(s ) do not overstate things a bit on something or other in that timeframe, thats a new 24 hours of Drum Corps conversation/ postings that I've never experienced before.... lol!

 

Edited by BRASSO
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Just seems people are having a hard time believing the reality that Crown is actually <gulp> a Sanford contender this year!  

Simply enjoy that Crown percussion actually did beat the Blue Devils already this year :worthy:

Edited by Wog
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Here is the bottomline from where I see it. Is DCI Percussion as a whole bad compared to prior years? Being a percussionist going to shows for the last 25 years, I don't see how its "bad" this year. Observing SCV, BD, BK, Madarins, Academy, live on the field and the parking lot, are they worst this season than prior seasons, the answer is NO.

2013, when Crown came out west, it was very apparent to me that Crown's percussion was not at the same level as BD and SCV. The book was less challaneging and they were not as clean as the aforementioned. This season, based on what I have seen on youtube, they is no question to me that they have improved in clarity and arrangement. And the scores confirm my humble assessement. So I don't think this is an issue of the percussion units coming down to Crown's level, its just Crown has improved. Someone else mentioned it and I concur, this is the best I have heard Crown's percussion since 2009. Kudos to them.

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35 minutes ago, Wog said:

Just seems people are having a hard time believing the reality that Crown is actually a contender this year!  

:worthy:

 I don't know about this. If we go back and look at the placement predictions here on DCP,  the evidence is there to support the belief  that lots of DCP'ers believed " that Crown will be a contender this year ". And with good reason.  Crown  medaled last season. So my sense is that this is an overstatement to believe that a lot of people are " having a hard time believing the reality that Crown is actually a contender this year ". The reality is that in preseason the assessment ( with most ) was that Crown would win it all, or be right in the running to win it all. That said, of course there could be found some posters, somewhere, thinking they would not be a contender, but that was not the prevailing, majority sentiment here on DCP . The placement prediction thread in preseason on here is the evidence to support the majority sentiment here on DCP , ie  that Crown will most likely be " a Contender " here in 2018.

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8 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 I don't know about this. If we go back and look at the placement predictions here on DCP,  the evidence is there to point to the fact that lots of DCP'ers believed " that Crown will be a contender this year ".

To clarify... a contender for the Sanford...

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9 minutes ago, Wog said:

To clarify... a contender for the Sanford...

 Oh THATS true... lol

 Crown is known historically for its quality Brass line. They still have a high quality Brass line. But if a DCP'er posted on here last winter that they predict that Crown 's strongest Corps section this season would perhaps be their Percussion section, and not their Brass line, most here would have rolled their eyes with that.... lol

Edited by BRASSO
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57 minutes ago, Wog said:

Just seems people are having a hard time believing the reality that Crown is actually <gulp> a Sanford contender this year!

I absolutely believe it. But even when they were only a sixth-place unit, they were still very good!

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Discussions about placement apart from score margins almost always lead to absurd exaggerations of dominance and weakness.

"Blue Devils are absolutely dominating visual..."

"Bluecoats are getting crushed in percussion..."

"Crown will blow out everyone in brass when they get in the mix..."

"SCV is locked for a gold"

and on and on.

None of these things are really sure due to the closeness of margins.  But we say them confidently and with increasing exaggeration as the placements repeat with consistency (even with the same tight margins).

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