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40 year dominance


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10 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:

We all know this is factually inaccurate.

That is something I much rather stay in the dark about.

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I think everyone here has given some great examples as to why the Blue Devils continue to win so consistently. If there were a few corps that had a chance to be co-equals with BD during their "40-year dominant" run of titles and great shows it was SCV in the 70s and 80s, and The Cadets from 1982 to 2015.  Over the long run The Cadets really had a shot at being a co-equal in dominance but errors in judgement and other mistakes kind of ruined that.  The Cavaliers in the early 2000s definitely dominated for a period of time. 

As some of you have rightly pointed to, it's not about who works hard.  Most all drum corps work plenty hard. It's not just staff alone either. There are many great minds, designers, teachers, and technicians out there. 

First and foremost it comes down to how you build your organization. Although BD is 10 years older than SCV, many of the early great instructors for BD came from Santa Clara, who in the late 60s and early 70s were at the cutting edge of show design and organizational development.  BD was built along those same principles.  Over time Blue Devils have become DCI's largest drum corps organization.  They operate 3 full drum corps (A,B,C), an alumni corps every so many years, a winter guard, BD entertainment drumline, a special-needs guard program (which is just priceless to witness), the Diablo Wind Symphony (a youth honors band program), and a private lesson program under their Yamaha School of Music initiative. 

The A corps attracts kids from all over the country and world. Their average age and level of talent will be such that beating them is difficult.  As some have said, only a handful of corps enter each season with a shot at defeating the Blue Devils. That aside, if you look at the rest of the organization, most of those kids are local from the Concord, Walnut Creek and surrounding communities. I would guess that between the B and C corps, the wind ensemble, the winter drumline and guard, private lessons, special needs guard, and other projects, they probably have 250 to 300 local kids involved in their programs on any given year. That's not counting the kids in the A corps. That type of local involvement means lots of parents helping with any number of projects, including a 7-day a week bingo game. Does it help that California has more liberal laws when it comes to bingo? Yes. And BD and SCV do take advantage of that. 

Clearly, the vision for what type of organization BD and SCV wanted to build -- and their outreach to local kids -- has been part of the success.  It means more volunteers and that operations are not just seasonal (spring/summer only) but year around. I'm not talking just about performances, but opportunities for local musicians and for parental involvement and fundraising. With cash comes power!  The power to hire instructors and keep them around. The power to grow your organization. The power to finance great opportunity and experience. 

In doing all this the Blue Devils' top corps (A corps) became a destination for top marchers from around the country. The Blue Devil brand name may have been built through the A corps and their signature jazz/Latin style over the decades, but that corps is fortified by a strong local organization that was wise with its money. 

 

Edited by jwillis35
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11 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

I think everyone here has given some great examples as to why the Blue Devils continue to win so consistently. If there were a few corps that had a chance to be co-equals with BD during their "40-year dominant" run of titles and great shows it was SCV in the 70s and 80s, and The Cadets from 1982 to 2015.  Over the long run The Cadets really had a shot at being a co-equal in dominance but errors in judgement and other mistakes kind of ruined that.  The Cavaliers in the early 2000s definitely dominated for a period of time. 

As some of you have rightly pointed to, it's not about who works hard.  Most all drum corps work plenty hard. It's not just staff alone either. There are many great minds, designers, teachers, and technicians out there. 

First and foremost it comes down to how you build your organization. Although BD is 10 years older than SCV, many of the early great instructors for BD came from Santa Clara, who in the late 60s and early 70s were at the cutting edge of show design and organizational development.  BD was built along those same principles.  Over time Blue Devils have become DCI's largest drum corps organization.  They operate 3 full drum corps (A,B,C), an alumni corps every so many years, a winter guard, BD entertainment drumline, a special-needs guard program (which is just priceless to witness), the Diablo Wind Symphony (a youth honors band program), and a private lesson program under their Yamaha School of Music initiative. 

The A corps attracts kids from all over the country and world. Their average age and level of talent will be such that beating them is difficult.  As some have said, only a handful of corps enter each season with a shot at defeating the Blue Devils. That aside, if you look at the rest of the organization, most of those kids are local from the Concord, Walnut Creek and surrounding communities. I would guess that between the B and C corps, the wind ensemble, the winter drumline and guard, private lessons, special needs guard, and other projects, they probably have 250 to 300 local kids involved in their programs on any given year. That's not counting the kids in the A corps. That type of local involvement means lots of parents helping with any number of projects, including a 7-day a week bingo game. Does it help that California has more liberal laws when it comes to bingo? Yes. And BD and SCV do take advantage of that. 

Clearly, the vision for what type of organization BD and SCV wanted to build -- and their outreach to local kids -- has been part of the success.  It means more volunteers and that operations are not just seasonal (spring/summer only) but year around. I'm not talking just about performances, but opportunities for local musicians and for parental involvement and fundraising. With cash comes power!  The power to hire instructors and keep them around. The power to grow your organization. The power to finance great opportunity and experience. 

In doing all this the Blue Devils' top corps (A corps) became a destination for top marchers from around the country. The Blue Devil brand name may have been built through the A corps and their signature jazz/Latin style over the decades, but that corps is fortified by a strong local organization that was wise with its money. 

 

Winner winner chicken dinner! 

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40 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

They operate 3 full drum corps (A,B,C),

Let us not leave out D, their Special Needs Corps. Seeing what the Special Needs Corps does for A, B & C should not go unnoticed. Bringing all four corps together in Dave Burbick Park in the spring and at other times throughout the year. The Special Needs Corps empowers the competitive ensembles with inspiration and hope that emanates from the brave kids in the Special Needs Corp. They have also contributed to BDs dominance. 

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54 minutes ago, Chief Guns said:

Winner winner chicken dinner! 

What the Special Needs kids don't get any chicken. That's OK I heard from a reliable source that they eat higher up on the food chain and don't need any chicken.

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 -

Edited by jwillis35
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1 hour ago, jwillis35 said:

I think everyone here has given some great examples as to why the Blue Devils continue to win so consistently. If there were a few corps that had a chance to be co-equals with BD during their "40-year dominant" run of titles and great shows it was SCV in the 70s and 80s, and The Cadets from 1982 to 2015.  Over the long run The Cadets really had a shot at being a co-equal in dominance but errors in judgement and other mistakes kind of ruined that.  The Cavaliers in the early 2000s definitely dominated for a period of time. 

As some of you have rightly pointed to, it's not about who works hard.  Most all drum corps work plenty hard. It's not just staff alone either. There are many great minds, designers, teachers, and technicians out there. 

First and foremost it comes down to how you build your organization. Although BD is 10 years older than SCV, many of the early great instructors for BD came from Santa Clara, who in the late 60s and early 70s were at the cutting edge of show design and organizational development.  BD was built along those same principles.  Over time Blue Devils have become DCI's largest drum corps organization.  They operate 3 full drum corps (A,B,C), an alumni corps every so many years, a winter guard, BD entertainment drumline, a special-needs guard program (which is just priceless to witness), the Diablo Wind Symphony (a youth honors band program), and a private lesson program under their Yamaha School of Music initiative. 

The A corps attracts kids from all over the country and world. Their average age and level of talent will be such that beating them is difficult.  As some have said, only a handful of corps enter each season with a shot at defeating the Blue Devils. That aside, if you look at the rest of the organization, most of those kids are local from the Concord, Walnut Creek and surrounding communities. I would guess that between the B and C corps, the wind ensemble, the winter drumline and guard, private lessons, special needs guard, and other projects, they probably have 250 to 300 local kids involved in their programs on any given year. That's not counting the kids in the A corps. That type of local involvement means lots of parents helping with any number of projects, including a 7-day a week bingo game. Does it help that California has more liberal laws when it comes to bingo? Yes. And BD and SCV do take advantage of that. 

Clearly, the vision for what type of organization BD and SCV wanted to build -- and their outreach to local kids -- has been part of the success.  It means more volunteers and that operations are not just seasonal (spring/summer only) but year around. I'm not talking just about performances, but opportunities for local musicians and for parental involvement and fundraising. With cash comes power!  The power to hire instructors and keep them around. The power to grow your organization. The power to finance great opportunity and experience. 

In doing all this the Blue Devils' top corps (A corps) became a destination for top marchers from around the country. The Blue Devil brand name may have been built through the A corps and their signature jazz/Latin style over the decades, but that corps is fortified by a strong local organization that was wise with its money. 

 

You left out the RCC drum line and a second Winter Guard Program. (They have a B&C corps level winter guards.) And I know that last year at during spring training they pulled aside their music ed majors in the corps and met with them to better prepare them for the summer System Blue camps. Put all that together and that's a heck of a lot of music involvement beyond the A corps show on the field.

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43 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

you baffle me..

Maybe so but I always try to explain myself. In all kinds of literature, there is implied and unimplied meanings (not that anything here is close to literature). However, in this case, leaving out BD's Special Needs Corps and awarding A, B & C with a chicken dinner is the rub. It's not to be taken seriously but is thought-provoking.

Thought-Provoking not to anything at all negative in the post, I agree.

It's thought-provoking that in a thread about BD's Dominance. A group of very brave, courageous and very special kids played a part and deserve more than, I baffle you..

Edited by Bluzes
typo
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One of the things I wish more people understood about DCI and Blue Devils is that the competitive success of the A corps is a direct product of what the organization has done and been focused on for four decades. And I say that because this puts so many other arguments into a different light.

The entire concept of scoring, and what is scored, is very much a direct product of the Blue Devils organizational approach to the activity. While there have certainly been Corps and people who have also influenced the direction of the activity, they didn’t have the organizational vision or financial backing to have the staying power of BD. Like it or not, when Nick Saban calls a press conference, a lot more people listen than when Derek Mason calls one.

In this respect, I think it is certainly fair to say that if you want to see how to succeed long term, the BD organizational and missional approach is one way to do it, and maybe the only way. As shows become more extravagant, and touring becomes more expensive, there is no practical way to stay afloat unless you have a broader music educational mission that is your year long focus. We all hear of famous corps that served awful “food” to members in tour, and didn’t pay their staff until weeks or even months after the season was over. If at all.

I say this because it really grinds my gears when people say, Just work harder...like Blue Devils. To that I say, BS. Blue Devils work no harder than Bluecoats, or Cadets, or Crown, or Blue Stars. It’s total crap to say the reason they continue to succeed is because they just want it more. 

The high schoolers marching for Scouts want it just as much as the age out college kids at BD. BD has infinitely more talent, experience and access to insight than Scouts have, and that is why they are beating them by 15+ points. 

This activity is not just about the kids, as appealing and feel good as that sounds. If you want to march and have fun, be in BOA. Go to Franklin High and have a fun summer learning drill and performing a few shows that get scored. That is not why you march in a DCI world class corps. You march in DCI because you want to be in a setting that is run by professionals, in which you compete against the best, and are judged by professional judges who will pick apart everything your corps does. Kids do not design DCI shows, and that isn’t why you join a corps. You join to be taught by the best in the world, in a show that normal humans should not be expected to learn and perform in a matter of weeks.

The question now is, what is the future of this activity? I am encouraged by the new power corps pushing toward the top. I’m encouraged by new world class members merging into the fold. That said, we should all be concerned about the financial risks that most of these corps are taking just to load the bus for their first show. Somehow we better find a way to address a level of fairness for all members, including those outside the top eight.

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2 hours ago, Bluzes said:

It just keeps going full circle for me, it's the MMs that make them great. All the banter back & forth. They make more money, they spend more getting to the distance shows. The staff is better but then again there are other great staffs all the way down the line. How many pages of this thread went on without mentioning the MMs at all. The activity I have been following for the last 60 years tells me it's the MMs that win championships not ANYTHING else. Stop selling them short and all the other MMs that make this activity so great. They are the ones that are shelling out their own hard earned cash (no madder how rich BD is) to perform for us. Appreciate them and extend them some credit.

Great MMs are necessary but not sufficient to win.

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