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It factor or just GE galore: Santa Clara Vanguard, Blue Devils, Bluecoats and Crown, which show (show design, execution, engagement, complexity) is most innovative for the 2018?


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1 minute ago, skevinp said:

Innovative use of language  :smile:

I had to override the autocorrect on that one. 

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 Which show (show design, execution, engagement, complexity) is most innovative for the 2018 season?

           in·no·va·tive: (of a product, idea, etc.) featuring new methods; advanced and original

  1. Show design:  Blue Devils  (Original)
  2. Execution:  Vanguard (Advanced)
  3. Engagement:  Bluecoats (New Methods)
  4. Complexity: Blue Devils (Advanced)
Totals: Blue Devils 2, Bluecoats 1, Vanguard 1, Crown 0
Edited by Den8uml
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28 minutes ago, Super Don-O said:

I don't understand the laser-like focus everyone seems to put on the idea of "innovative". It can be super well designed and performed without having to have re-envisioned what drum corps is. I agree with other posters about the way Vanguard uses and integrates the nesting stages as being innovative, but in reality the reason it is an effective show is thrilling music, a creative overall design package that integrates the visual with the music perfectly, tons of demand performed really cleanly, and a hell of a lot of confidence and swagger.

Yeah the visual design is the least appealing part of Vanguard's show. Especially compared to the musical program which may be the best in DCI this year 

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35 minutes ago, kdaddy said:

Definitely not seeing this. Even the musical focal point (God Bless the Child) has been done by every corps except Phantom Regiment and Pioneer.

However, wonderful show that I love.

I give them the nod for the way they integrate vocals and for the way they've set a diverse yet uniform soundscape that no other corps this year, or in my opinion in previous years, have done. 

The vocals, for the first time ever feel, like they're a part of the show. Understanding the words being spoken isn't a necessity because the lyrics aren't driving any plot points. Theyre adding to a mood and doing so leads to a level of cohesiveness with the vocals that doesn't displace you from the rest of the ensemble. 

Their percussion book (particularly the battery) is doing something that no other line out there is doing: adding subtlety. There is no ramming of notes or elaborate/disruptive features. What they possibly sacrificed in difficulty of the book is made up by the fact that once again, the soundscape is consistent, cohesive. You aren't taken out of the flow of the music at any point. 

Almost everything else Bloo is doing this year is more of a refinement than an innovation, but I think the things I mention above set it apart from the other corps mentioned in this thread. I just don't see how SCV or BD are really doing anything new (well BD's guard is doing some new and innovative stuff hair flips aside but still)

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When I think 'innovative' I think 'something we've never seen before.' No one's really doing that this year. But if I had to pick a most, I'd actually go with Boston.

For reference, Bluecoats '16 I would consider innovative - they didn't have 'props' as much as they had 'sets' that truly modified what the performers were able to do on the field. They've done the same in '17 and '18, and I really like '18, but it's just doing the same thing in a different way. As for their music this year, the program is basically really good/clean jazzy drum corps, which again, is awesome, but isn't new. Even the singer, while phenomenal and arguably the best use of voice in drum corps since we got microphones, is just using a tool more effectively.

SCV this year is great, but I'm still not calling it innovative. It's great use of body movement/drill/sound/etc., but it's all just great drum corps. The props definitely fall into the set idea I mentioned above, but I don't think they add nearly as much as any Bluecoat set, the '16 edition of which raised the innovation bar. 

I'm sticking with Boston on this one because their show has a lot of things I've never really seen before. They use props like a set - basically the whole field is the set - and by the end of the show they have literally modified the set to reflect what's come to pass in the show. That's awesome. Also the story is simple, easy to follow, and dramatic, and that's saying something when I consider SCV 04 and Phantom 08 to be the pinnacles of storytelling in drum corps (and neither of which did the field/set modification concept). Add on top of that the use of letters in the drill - something we've definitely seen before, but never as clean, readable, frequent, or lacking the cheese that usually comes with it - and it's truly bordering on that never been seen before type of show.

 

Side note: While I don't think 99% of BD's show is innovative at all, bringing Nighthawks to life on the field is the 1% definitely. There's no question what painting it is, and it's very cool. But aside from that single aspect of the show, it's just another BD show. A truly phenomenal product by a talented group of performers and designers, but extremely similar to most of what I've seen from them in the past two decades.

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9 minutes ago, ouooga said:

When I think 'innovative' I think 'something we've never seen before.' No one's really doing that this year. But if I had to pick a most, I'd actually go with Boston.

For reference, Bluecoats '16 I would consider innovative - they didn't have 'props' as much as they had 'sets' that truly modified what the performers were able to do on the field. They've done the same in '17 and '18, and I really like '18, but it's just doing the same thing in a different way. As for their music this year, the program is basically really good/clean jazzy drum corps, which again, is awesome, but isn't new. Even the singer, while phenomenal and arguably the best use of voice in drum corps since we got microphones, is just using a tool more effectively.

SCV this year is great, but I'm still not calling it innovative. It's great use of body movement/drill/sound/etc., but it's all just great drum corps. The props definitely fall into the set idea I mentioned above, but I don't think they add nearly as much as any Bluecoat set, the '16 edition of which raised the innovation bar. 

I'm sticking with Boston on this one because their show has a lot of things I've never really seen before. They use props like a set - basically the whole field is the set - and by the end of the show they have literally modified the set to reflect what's come to pass in the show. That's awesome. Also the story is simple, easy to follow, and dramatic, and that's saying something when I consider SCV 04 and Phantom 08 to be the pinnacles of storytelling in drum corps (and neither of which did the field/set modification concept). Add on top of that the use of letters in the drill - something we've definitely seen before, but never as clean, readable, frequent, or lacking the cheese that usually comes with it - and it's truly bordering on that never been seen before type of show.

 

Side note: While I don't think 99% of BD's show is innovative at all, bringing Nighthawks to life on the field is the 1% definitely. There's no question what painting it is, and it's very cool. But aside from that single aspect of the show, it's just another BD show. A truly phenomenal product by a talented group of performers and designers, but extremely similar to most of what I've seen from them in the past two decades.

I agree with many things said here. Bluecoats 2016 was innovation!! 

SCV performance level is stellar and no doubt great use of props. 

Maybe I am simple minded but I do wish for more shows like Boston. I still believe that got the most crowd reaction in Atlanta. 

Devils use of prop development through the show is very good. Just I feel the show is disjointed at times. 

 

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1 hour ago, Super Don-O said:

I don't understand the laser-like focus everyone seems to put on the idea of "innovative". It can be super well designed and performed without having to have re-envisioned what drum corps is. I agree with other posters about the way Vanguard uses and integrates the nesting stages as being innovative, but in reality the reason it is an effective show is thrilling music, a creative overall design package that integrates the visual with the music perfectly, tons of demand performed really cleanly, and a hell of a lot of confidence and swagger.

I was responding to the critique of Babylon and innovation from another thread but the forum GOD's wouldn't let me break it down per corp - so I had to lump them all together! 

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4 minutes ago, ouooga said:

I'm sticking with Boston on this one because their show has a lot of things I've never really seen before. They use props like a set - basically the whole field is the set - and by the end of the show they have literally modified the set to reflect what's come to pass in the show. That's awesome. Also the story is simple, easy to follow, and dramatic, and that's saying something when I consider SCV 04 and Phantom 08 to be the pinnacles of storytelling in drum corps (and neither of which did the field/set modification concept). Add on top of that the use of letters in the drill - something we've definitely seen before, but never as clean, readable, frequent, or lacking the cheese that usually comes with it - and it's truly bordering on that never been seen before type of show.

Hmm I can think of a few shows that treated the field like a set and modified the set throughout. A few BD shows (13, 15, and even 18 come to mind), Phantom 2008, Cadets 2011, Academy 2016, hell even SCV is doing it this year (though not as clearly as the above examples)

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52 minutes ago, ouooga said:

When I think 'innovative' I think 'something we've never seen before.' No one's really doing that this year. But if I had to pick a most, I'd actually go with Boston.

For reference, Bluecoats '16 I would consider innovative - they didn't have 'props' as much as they had 'sets' that truly modified what the performers were able to do on the field. They've done the same in '17 and '18, and I really like '18, but it's just doing the same thing in a different way. As for their music this year, the program is basically really good/clean jazzy drum corps, which again, is awesome, but isn't new. Even the singer, while phenomenal and arguably the best use of voice in drum corps since we got microphones, is just using a tool more effectively.

SCV this year is great, but I'm still not calling it innovative. It's great use of body movement/drill/sound/etc., but it's all just great drum corps. The props definitely fall into the set idea I mentioned above, but I don't think they add nearly as much as any Bluecoat set, the '16 edition of which raised the innovation bar. 

I'm sticking with Boston on this one because their show has a lot of things I've never really seen before. They use props like a set - basically the whole field is the set - and by the end of the show they have literally modified the set to reflect what's come to pass in the show. That's awesome. Also the story is simple, easy to follow, and dramatic, and that's saying something when I consider SCV 04 and Phantom 08 to be the pinnacles of storytelling in drum corps (and neither of which did the field/set modification concept). Add on top of that the use of letters in the drill - something we've definitely seen before, but never as clean, readable, frequent, or lacking the cheese that usually comes with it - and it's truly bordering on that never been seen before type of show.

 

Side note: While I don't think 99% of BD's show is innovative at all, bringing Nighthawks to life on the field is the 1% definitely. There's no question what painting it is, and it's very cool. But aside from that single aspect of the show, it's just another BD show. A truly phenomenal product by a talented group of performers and designers, but extremely similar to most of what I've seen from them in the past two decades.

What? Some one needs to see more BOA shows! 

Edited by Box5Opinion
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Just now, Box5Opinion said:

What? Some needs to see more BOA shows! 

I wanted to use the both the laughing and "thanks" reaction but settled for replying with it instead :thumbs-up:

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